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 Post subject: Re: Sad news for Cass climax restorers
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:43 am 

Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:54 pm
Posts: 269
stanames wrote:
Are there any updates on the plans to complete the restoration of the Climax at Cass

Thanks

Stan Ames

From what I heard, they are hoping to have it out by the spring of next year? I talked with the guys at Durbin and thats the plan. Then WM 6 and the Durbin Climax, and then the BC&G 4.

There is a video of a visit to the Cass shop about a month ago, and it is in the shop, boiler attached and everything seems to be going back together.

-154


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 Post subject: Re: Sad news for Cass climax restorers
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:26 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:10 pm
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Sorry but I haven't been to Cass in quite a while. What has actually happened since the outsourcing from State Ownership & Operation?

Locomotives running? Passenger Counts up or down? Crossover passenger traffic with the other Durbin lines? The fate of the Climax? "just the facts, m'am".........Sgt. Joe Friday.


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 Post subject: Re: Sad news for Cass climax restorers
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:06 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:55 pm
Posts: 686
Location: Warren, PA
I think depending on your level of emotional entanglement with Cass, and on what specific subject, you can get completely different reactions. I was down there in August.

Good to see a whole lineup of hot Shays, #11 being test run, lots of activity in the shop. The 'big' Climax was partially reassembled. Big news to me was observing the progress headed up the Greenbrier on restoring the track. And a lot of people were on the Bald Knob train, with one Shay, fewer cars, more people. Whittaker is being enlarged as an entertainment center. The overhead "Whittaker" portal is gone, heard it about collapsed and was taken down for safety.

I was a bit sad to see Climax 3 under a tarp, but felt better when I saw Heisler 6 hot at Durbin. There's just a lot going on. I think depending on your personal agenda, you can see what you want to see. Change at Cass is somewhat of an oxymoron, but it is happening. I guess my feeling is that given the tanking of the WV state budget under Parks, what's there is a whole lot better than what could have happened.


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 Post subject: Re: Sad news for Cass climax restorers
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:18 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:28 pm
Posts: 168
Location: Northern WV
I tend to agree with Randy's assessment of the current Cass situation. Lots of things have changed at Cass, many for the better, some for the worse. The current operator (Durbin & Greenbrier Valley Railroad) has their way of doing things--it's their way or the highway. Some activities geared to hard-core Cass railfans like the annual Railfan Weekend have been eliminated. To use railfanning terms, they are seeking to attract the "daisy pickers" at the expense of possibly alienating the "foamers" since the former are the ones that will keep the needed cash coming in. Also, the way the Climax restoration handover took place rankled old-time "Cassophiles". To their credit, the D&GVRR has keep steam going & added special trains like Halloween trains, Christmastime Elf Express and hopes to have the Cass to Durbin line rebuilt by next year. They're a for-profit company and as such has to conduct their operations differently than a state-run agency.

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 Post subject: Re: Sad news for Cass climax restorers
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:10 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 46
I've yet to be back to Cass since the new operators. I'm certainly glad the place still exists and as long as Shay's still operate safely up and down the mountain we can be very thankful.

That said, it seems the new operators have made alot of unfortunate decisions. Cass is not really a daisy-picker type attraction, you have to really want to go there. There is nothing wrong with trying to attract more tourists but decisions that upset some of the best supporters of Cass, the Cass fans and railfans, don't really make sense to me.

My biggest worry is that when I rode the Durbin Rocket years ago, that track was in really really bad condition. If the D&G thought that track was safe enough to run passenger trains on, I worry about the amount of money they plan to invest on track and maintenance. Cass had such good track maintenance over the years that it would take a few years of neglect before it started to show.


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 Post subject: Re: Sad news for Cass climax restorers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:28 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:47 pm
Posts: 71
Location: Arizona
quote "...........My biggest worry is that when I rode the Durbin Rocket years ago, that track was in really really bad condition. If the D&G thought that track was safe enough to run passenger trains on, I worry about the amount of money they plan to invest on track and maintenance. Cass had such good track maintenance over the years that it would take a few years of neglect before it started to show."

I ran the "Rocket" a summer a few years back. Yes it was quite funky around the washouts, but is was stable. Because the D&GV is not part of the General System, and has no public road crossings, there is no federal oversight on track maintenance. However, once the get the track back in from Cass, they will connect with the general system, and their entire world will change.


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 Post subject: Re: Sad news for Cass climax restorers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:39 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
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[quote="Crescent-Zephyr" Cass is not really a daisy-picker type attraction, you have to really want to go there. There is nothing wrong with trying to attract more tourists but decisions that upset some of the best supporters of Cass, the Cass fans and railfans, don't really make sense to me.[/quote]

Given the groups you refer to can't provide the same bulk and intensity of support, much less contribute to the regional tourism base, it makes perfect sense to invest in attracting them. Cass and foamey fanatics will go there anyhow, there's nothing to be gained by working towards that limitation.

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 Post subject: Re: Sad news for Cass climax restorers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:55 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:05 pm
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Quote:
Because the D&GV is not part of the General System, and has no public road crossings, there is no federal oversight on track maintenance. However, once the get the track back in from Cass, they will connect with the general system, and their entire world will change

Not true. Tourist RRs are under emergency order jurisdiction, which provides oversight at a very reduced level. FRA can still visit and will order corrective action if a situation becomes serious enough. Connecting with the general system also does not make an operation part of the general system unless the operation begins to operate general system movements like freight and intercity passenger, and tourist operations receiving only shipments necessary to operation like loaded ballast cars or gons full of ties do not fall under general system. Tourist operation on general system is still exempt from some equipment regs like 238. So unless D&GV decides to do a Strasburg and start freight operations, they can continue as is.

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 Post subject: Re: Sad news for Cass climax restorers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:00 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 46
I don't think I follow? None of the Cass fans or foamers are complaining that Cass is trying holiday trains, etc. That's great. The complaint is the elimination of Railfan events that usually sold out (so I can't imagine they were losing money) and the seeming unwillingness to work with the historical society.

Don't forget that many foamers and die-hard fans send friends and family (some who are not foamers) to these types of operations, so don't right them off. The good will that a well put together railfan event can provide is way more than a few foamers getting a nice photo. It generates good will, good press, and good publicity for the organization. Something Cass currently doesn't have among the railfan community.


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 Post subject: Re: Sad news for Cass climax restorers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:46 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
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Location: southeastern USA
No, I do understand. We will show up anyhow, even if some of us complain the whole time we're there, and we're not of enough economic weight and clout to matter in relative terms. Perhaps a special event once a year might be worthy of producing for railfans alone, combined with snow or special photography opportunities, otherwise seek to build the larger market. I'd be amazed of a half dozen people who are complaining about change there will boycott it unilaterally, especially as more infrastructure and different locomotives come on line.

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 Post subject: Re: Sad news for Cass climax restorers
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:57 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:47 pm
Posts: 71
Location: Arizona
TrainDetainer wrote:
Quote:
Because the D&GV is not part of the General System, and has no public road crossings, there is no federal oversight on track maintenance. However, once the get the track back in from Cass, they will connect with the general system, and their entire world will change

Not true. Tourist RRs are under emergency order jurisdiction, which provides oversight at a very reduced level. FRA can still visit and will order corrective action if a situation becomes serious enough. Connecting with the general system also does not make an operation part of the general system unless the operation begins to operate general system movements like freight and intercity passenger, and tourist operations receiving only shipments necessary to operation like loaded ballast cars or gons full of ties do not fall under general system. Tourist operation on general system is still exempt from some equipment regs like 238. So unless D&GV decides to do a Strasburg and start freight operations, they can continue as is.



Well, I'm not the expert on this that you seem to be, but it is my understanding that a completely insular operation does not come under FRA justidiction anymore than an isolated industrial operation, street car system, or an amusement park.

Where the FRA is going sit up and take notice is when train begin running from Elkins over the hill to Cass and up to Durbin.


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 Post subject: Re: Sad news for Cass climax restorers
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:33 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:05 pm
Posts: 67
EK - I think you're missing my point. While D&GV connecting to the outside world will mean they are no longer insular if that is the case now, it does not make them part of the General System and all of its requirements. They would be 'FRA lite' as it's sometimes known, subject to only the relevant critical rules (shown here: https://www.atrrm.org/images/APPLICABIL ... 03.doc.pdf), unless they decide to start participating in General System operations. 'FRA lite' would be a relatively minor change and not something terribly difficult or expensive to adjust to if they are already operating safely.

In any case, I thought this thread was about the restoration of a certain Climax, but once again has drifted way off topic like so many other threads on here...

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 Post subject: Re: Sad news for Cass climax restorers
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:24 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:24 am
Posts: 478
Location: Canada
I found this today on Facebook showing the climax progress.


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 Post subject: Re: Sad news for Cass climax restorers
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:32 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:24 am
Posts: 478
Location: Canada
This apparently is the boiler of BC&G 2-8-0 #4, I believe she was nicknamed "old slobberface" when in service, I'm guessing it had something to do with the fact she's non-superheated. Photo credit both photos Warren Robinson.


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 Post subject: Re: Sad news for Cass climax restorers
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:35 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 11:12 pm
Posts: 96
Finderskeepers wrote:
This apparently is the boiler of BC&G 2-8-0 #4, I believe she was nicknamed "old slobberface" when in service, I'm guessing it had something to do with the fact she's non-superheated. Photo credit both photos Warren Robinson.

Isnt that a bit on the small side for #4's boiler? Now in the background you can see a boiler with a jacket still on and it is much closer to the size I would expect. I did see this picture on FB and the poster had mentioned that Cass/Durbin had a boiler shipped in from New Hampshire where it had been in use to heat greenhouses. Maybe that's what this is.


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