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 Post subject: Steamtown CN mikados 3254/3377
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:50 am 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am
Posts: 399
Let me preface this thread with a caveat; I am starting this discussion for the purpose of constructive conversation regarding two locomotives at SNHS. Any commentary that is needlessly rude or inflammatory is unwelcome. I will flag any comments that are out of line and will delete the thread if need be. I am asking the moderators to respect this condition and to police the thread accordingly.

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Now, many of us are already aware of Canadian National mikado 3254, which SNHS acquired in a trade for CP #1278 in 1987. She was taken out of service at the end of 2012 with time still on the clock - the reason supposedly being issues with either the boiler/firebox or the frame, combined with other needed maintenance which made further operation impractical.

CN 3254 had sustained a good collision at some point during her service life - her frame horns are bent and the frame is also bowed to one side, causing the cab to sit off-center. She has frequently been described as a "rough rider," and had been chewing up bearings at an accelerated rate.

Many parts on 3254 are actually from sister engine CN 3377, which had been put on the dead line with only 500 or so miles after Class repairs (anyone know what level?). 3377 was unfortunately the target of copper thieves during her trip to Steamtown (North Walpole version) and was never repaired. She almost had her chance as a part of the Vermont Bicentennial along with 2317 and 5288, but it never came to pass (plans were scaled down for one engine instead of three, #2317).

At one point, the rumor mill was churning on about 3254's boiler being placed on 3377's frame, sort of a best-of-both-worlds scenario (3377's boiler, as far as I know, has not been checked but there are no known defects, either). While the engines are very similar, they also have a lot of differences, which made this swap impractical. However, 3254 and her sister 3377 are both ideally suited for the park's needs and it is not surprising that '77 has, from what I can tell, become the next locomotive on the list for operational restoration following the return of B&M 3713.

Another component in the mix is a stainless steel tender body that was constructed for 3254 in 2010. At the time, 3377's tender body was scrapped, with the plan of 3254's current tender body going onto 3377's tender frame, and the new body joining with 3254. It has been confirmed that the stainless steel body will fit either frame without issue so the new tender body can simply stay with 3377 (a big hurdle already cleared).

I would anticipate that Steamtown can save both time and money by swapping a multitude of good parts from 3254 to 3377. As I said, many of these parts started out on 3377 to begin with. As far as I know, all of the parts that were removed from 3254 are still on site and can be mounted back on the engine so that she will still serve as a mostly intact static display.

The downside would be that the condition of 3377's boiler is an unknown, and the park may have to pay for asbestos removal since she was not part of the abatement project. Hopefully they can handle those two concerns in the near future.

I'll open this up for orderly discussion now, please post in-service photos of 3377 if you have them.


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 Post subject: Re: Steamtown CN mikados 3254/3377
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:33 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am
Posts: 399
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 Post subject: Re: Steamtown CN mikados 3254/3377
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:39 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:32 am
Posts: 55
Very interesting. How have you come upon this information, re: 3377 being next in line? This would make a lot of sense, from an economic standpoint, if the boiler on 3377 is in decent shape.

John


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 Post subject: Re: Steamtown CN mikados 3254/3377
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:43 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am
Posts: 399
I believe the park has submitted a funding request with the NPS? I am sure the regulars will comment soon, but this is what I am hearing from several sources.


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 Post subject: Re: Steamtown CN mikados 3254/3377
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:49 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:32 am
Posts: 55
This would be very good news. It would be nice to see a long neglected engine get another chance at life.

John


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 Post subject: Re: Steamtown CN mikados 3254/3377
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:09 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am
Posts: 399
The infamous stainless steel tender

Attachment:
tender1.jpg
tender1.jpg [ 39.62 KiB | Viewed 1059 times ]


Attachment:
tender2.jpg
tender2.jpg [ 51.58 KiB | Viewed 1059 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: Steamtown CN mikados 3254/3377
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:31 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:29 pm
Posts: 36
For the sake of discussion. Wouldn't it be easier to tweak the frame on 3254? Hydraulics have come a long way since it was repaired before.
Gary


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 Post subject: Re: Steamtown CN mikados 3254/3377
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:31 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:59 pm
Posts: 64
Location: Springville, PA
Basically,

The 3254 has been used up - tender included.

The asbestos abatement project is in the works for the 3377.

The big unknown for the 3377 is the condition of the outside of the boiler. All those years of rain and asbestos can wreak havoc on a steel boiler shell.

The inside of the boiler looks quite clean - determined with lights, mirrors and bore scopes on some critical areas. A more in depth analysis will be performed after asbestos abatement.

The mechanical side of things on the 3377 look promising. New crown brasses, new tires, meaty axles, etc.

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Bruce Mowbray
Springville, PA


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 Post subject: Re: Steamtown CN mikados 3254/3377
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:34 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am
Posts: 399
Thanks, Bruce!


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 Post subject: Re: Steamtown CN mikados 3254/3377
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:39 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:28 pm
Posts: 168
Location: Northern WV
Where did the leading and trailing trucks for 3377 go? Were they utilized to keep 3254 running or in a pile of junk out back? It would be great to have an engine capable of trips to the Delaware Water Gap steaming again.

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Roger Cole


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 Post subject: Re: Steamtown CN mikados 3254/3377
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:43 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3724
Location: Maine
I don't get "the infamous stainless steel tender" remark. I'd think that would be progressive and smart.

Here are some pictures from my several trips to Scranton. I need to refer to the study of each of the Steamtown locomotives to get further information on 3377. Seems I recall there being a plan to return 3254's strongest parts to 3377, from where many had come. Keeping the 3254 as a static display wouldn't be a bad fate, and returning the silent Mike to service is a very good idea.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Please, let's stay on the topic of this one changeover 3254 to 3377, and not get off on other Steamtown locomotives.

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 Post subject: Re: Steamtown CN mikados 3254/3377
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:14 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3724
Location: Maine
From the 1991 Chappell Report:

The operational history of this locomotive is not known.

Condition: No. 3377 reportedly is in relatively good condition with low mileage since its
last overhaul. Most of its "jewelry" is missing, i.e., brass fittings in and outside of the cab
including such items as gauges, copper pipes, and the like. Most of this material was
deliberately removed before the move from Canada to Bellows Falls, Vermont. The
locomotive could be overhauled and placed back in service.

Recommendation: As one of the two "Mikado" type locomotives at Steamtown, this
locomotive should be preserved to represent its type. It may also be used in excursion train
service.

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 Post subject: Re: Steamtown CN mikados 3254/3377
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:10 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am
Posts: 399
WVNorthern wrote:
Where did the leading and trailing trucks for 3377 go? Were they utilized to keep 3254 running or in a pile of junk out back? It would be great to have an engine capable of trips to the Delaware Water Gap steaming again.


AFAIK they are on the property somewhere, including whatever may have come off of 3254. They just didn't bother to keep reassembling 3377 with the cast offs.


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 Post subject: Re: Steamtown CN mikados 3254/3377
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:10 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3724
Location: Maine
My understand is 3254'a were replaced with 3377's and the worn units put in storage for eventual replacement.

Assuming the idea of a "swap back" is in the cards, it would seem like a good way to turn around a steam locomotive in short order. Obviously a typical 1472 would be in order for the boiler.

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 Post subject: Re: Steamtown CN mikados 3254/3377
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:33 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am
Posts: 399
Richard Glueck wrote:
Obviously a typical 1472 would be in order for the boiler.


Same for 3254 or 2317, both of which have their issues as well. Wasn't 2317 put on her roof in service?


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