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 Post subject: Re: PRR 1361 Update
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:03 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:27 am
Posts: 390
Location: Winters, TX
So what are the chances of reassembling the locomotive, give it a nice paint job and display it somewhere? I'd rather see it stuffed and mounted in one piece than spread out all over the country with virtually no hope of it ever operating again.


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 Post subject: Re: PRR 1361 Update
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:00 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:35 pm
Posts: 2
Location: Rocky Ridge, MD
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In February 2017 I was given a private tour of the facility including 1361 by an upper level member of the management staff. In May 2017 I had a follow up discussion with this team member, here is what I know.
1. All of the parts are in Altoona indoors. In Feb 2017 they appeared to be secure and in good condition.
2. There is a small talented crew of volunteers working on the tender and parts of the loco, no major work on boiler being perforned. As of May 2017 no decision had been made regarding the boiler.
3. Several of the volunteers are skilled workers from the NS shop. It is not a NS project.
4. As of May 2017, there was no overall formal plan or schedule in place for the restoration.
I agree with previous posts, The museum needs to do a better job of communicating to the public (potential donors) which includes updating the web site on the 1361 project. Here are some photos from Feb 2017.


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 Post subject: Re: PRR 1361 Update
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:35 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:46 am
Posts: 14
Location: Altoona, PA
The following is a personal statement and impressions of a volunteer/observer and life member, not an official statement of ARMM:

Charlie wrote:
So what are the chances of reassembling the locomotive, give it a nice paint job and display it somewhere? I'd rather see it stuffed and mounted in one piece than spread out all over the country with virtually no hope of it ever operating again.


It's not scattered all over the country. That's a misconception spread, at least in part, by Chuck Blardone of the PRRT&HS:

Chuck Blardone, The Keystone, Vol. 42, No. 3 wrote:
Why today is the boiler in Georgia, the running gear at Steamtown, and the tender and cab in Altoona?


This is a falsehood. The locomotive, to my knowledge (aside from wheel work done by TVRM thanks to the engine being left hand lead), never left Pennsylvania. I personally would like to know where Mr. Blardone got evidence of the boiler being in Georgia, but unlike some people, I and others at ARMM are more than willing to bury the hatchet and move on despite the rather obvious (and apparently successful) libel that line in his editorial espoused, because it's the past.

1361 is all in Altoona. Disassembled, and kept in 2 buildings, but home. It was my photo of her boiler in the ARMM roundhouse that started this thread 2 1/2 years ago, and it was the last component to arrive after an extended layover in Rockhill Furnace. Back when this thread was started, I said I would pass along information as it was available. I apologize that hasn't been the case--for one thing, not a lot has happened since, and for another, I've kept quiet because there are a lot of internal dealings going on at ARMM that I, as a volunteer, can't freely talk about.

I realize everyone's tired of hearing this, but I ask for your patience with the project. Those of you who are past and current members should be watching your mailboxes--the ARMM membership newsletter, The Standard is being brought back and talks briefly about 1361 on page 3, but for everyone else, I'll quote the last paragraph:

The Standard, Fall 2017 wrote:
The road ahead requires talent, resources, and oversight to ensure the project is done right.


ARMM seems well aware of the challenges ahead--overcoming years of negative press, a place to operate beyond the 700 feet of track out to the NS Pittsburgh Line, fundraising, community and donor engagement, contractors and crewing--and really just doesn't want to jump the gun only to get burned again. If the museum is going to do this, it does it right or not at all, because screwing up again would probably be the end.

Next May, 1361 turns 100 (she left the Erecting & Machine Shop on May 18, 1918). While I don't know what, I'm sure we'd like to do something for that occasion.

It's worth noting that, while not formally announced anywhere, Larry Salone is no longer involved with ARMM. His influence remains through certain staff, but the man himself is gone and his position lays vacant.

PS: I agree that ARMM's communication with the public is very lacking, but the final call on that is between the Board and our Director of Marketing. I personally think that person isn't being very effective--i.e. marketing tactics from 15+ years ago, when I was in high school and the popular social media wasn't really a thing (Myspace is 14 years old now), and only using Facebook for critical 'oh hey the elevator's broke' type stuff. The newsletter is a first step in the right direction, but like it or not, Facebook is the platform we would likely get the furthest reach and response from the public (this is true across the preservation field, and has been discussed here before).

Baby steps, people. Baby steps.


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 Post subject: Re: PRR 1361 Update
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:26 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 240
RaySoderberg wrote:
In February 2017 I was given a private tour of the facility including 1361 by an upper level member of the management staff. In May 2017 I had a follow up discussion with this team member, here is what I know.
1. All of the parts are in Altoona indoors. In Feb 2017 they appeared to be secure and in good condition.
2. There is a small talented crew of volunteers working on the tender and parts of the loco, no major work on boiler being perforned. As of May 2017 no decision had been made regarding the boiler.


RaySoderberg and T.E.P. - Thank you for posting these updates. It is good to see that the first step with any artifact - stabilization with secure indoor storage of all known assemblies and subassemblies - has taken place. Construction of secure indoor storage should be considered as an important part of the whole restoration process.

Does the current group of volunteers have any documentation on the artifact such as an inventory, the ultrasound measurements of the boiler and firebox, or the engineering calculations that were done on the boiler? A possible second step would be to either confirm the inventory or to create one if necessary.

My recollection is that a lot of work was done on the tender. About how much more needs to be done to complete the tender? Targeting the tender for completion could be a good way to show some progress without having to make any major decisions regarding the boiler so it is good to see that the volunteers appear to be focusing some of their efforts on the tender.

If possible, please continue to post updates when you can. Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: PRR 1361 Update
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:41 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am
Posts: 399
Cart before the horse?


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 Post subject: Re: PRR 1361 Update
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:33 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3746
Location: Maine
The tender was, I believe, all but ready to go. I would suggest completion, painting and use the darn thing to show the money wasn't entirely lost. There can be a very positive outcome for 1361. I also agree with an entire UT of the boiler. Get it mapped correctly and move forward with a solid repair plan.

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"It's only impossible until it's done." -Nelson Mandela


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 Post subject: Re: PRR 1361 Update
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:20 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:54 pm
Posts: 1753
"It's worth noting that, while not formally announced anywhere, Larry Salone is no longer involved with ARMM. His influence remains through certain staff, but the man himself is gone and his position lays vacant."


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 Post subject: Re: PRR 1361 Update
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:27 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:50 pm
Posts: 367
I think finishing the tender would be an excellent first step to show just how much work is finished or nearly finished and would create some very effective "buzz" in the local and railfan community. This is also something not out of the realm of possibility to get assistance from NS with either. Followed closely by getting the chassis back on the drivers and start putting the running gear back together.

Wishing the volunteers and the museum all the best in establishing a clear path forward with the 1361. May 2018 be a fruitful and effective year for them and the 1361.

Rob Gardner


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 Post subject: Re: PRR 1361 Update
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:32 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3053
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Rob Gardner wrote:
I think finishing the tender would be an excellent first step to show just how much work is finished or nearly finished and would create some very effective "buzz" in the local and railfan community. This is also something not out of the realm of possibility to get assistance from NS with either. Followed closely by getting the chassis back on the drivers and start putting the running gear back together.

Wishing the volunteers and the museum all the best in establishing a clear path forward with the 1361. May 2018 be a fruitful and effective year for them and the 1361.

Rob Gardner


I concur completely!

I'm also reminded of how the group restoring AS&SF 2926 had a restored air compressor they took around and ran on air. It was, like the tender, a visible (and audible!) sign of progress that may have helped generate donations.


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 Post subject: Re: PRR 1361 Update
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:43 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3746
Location: Maine
"Nothing succeeds like success." A painted, lettered, completed tender, can only prove how much was already done properly, and highlights the need to support finishing the K4s in total. If I was a Director of the project, I'd push for this accomplishment immediately. Take it out for special events or interviews, keep it indoors otherwise.
This is an important piece of the overall project.

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 Post subject: Re: PRR 1361 Update
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:59 pm 

Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 8:35 pm
Posts: 203
Without pouring gas on the fire I have to wonder: My Heavens; it's so close to being done ! Just get the right people involved and finish it !

Kevin K.


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 Post subject: Re: PRR 1361 Update
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:29 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:50 pm
Posts: 367
It's not really that close to being finished and is far more than just needing to be reassembled as the boiler still has a substandard crown sheet that needs to be reengineered and replaced. Yes, the tender is very close to being finished and the running gear does appear to simply need reassembly.

Rob Gardner


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 Post subject: Re: PRR 1361 Update
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:57 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
Posts: 723
Rob Gardner wrote:
It's not really that close to being finished and is far more than just needing to be reassembled as the boiler still has a substandard crown sheet that needs to be reengineered and replaced. Yes, the tender is very close to being finished and the running gear does appear to simply need reassembly.

Rob Gardner


Crown sheet or roof sheet?

Or both?


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 Post subject: Re: PRR 1361 Update
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:04 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 1250
Location: Strasburg, PA
Roof sheet. The crown sheet was already replaced and is ok (nominally). The big oops is that all of the newly made crown bolts were installed and driven before calculations were run on the roof sheet. Completely wasted now.

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Strasburg Rail Road Mechanical Department


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 Post subject: Re: PRR 1361 Update
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:24 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3746
Location: Maine
So from a professional perspective, Kelly, what kind of repair? Are we talking a totally new firebox or wrapper, or both?

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"It's only impossible until it's done." -Nelson Mandela


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