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 Post subject: Re: CNR 46, 47, and 49 4-6-4T's
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:35 am 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am
Posts: 534
superheater wrote:

5 Tons of coal and 2900 gallons probably means Moscow is a stretch, and 31K TE translates to maybe 5 coaches max on Pocono grade. Good for the shuttle and perhaps the occasional jaiunt to Carbondale



Won't get 5 coaches. 3713 is going to have to be worked hard to get 5 up the main and her TE is just over 40k.


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 Post subject: Re: CNR 46, 47, and 49 4-6-4T's
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:52 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:27 pm
Posts: 420
Location: Milford,Mass
Hi
I am not trying to change the subject on the thread, but I would like to add this. The B&A Tank locomotives, for the most part, ran the loop trains in Boston, mass. Their general trackage was running out to Riverside and returning to Boston.
The B&A Tank engines were 2-6-6-T's 300 to 317 and the 4-6-6-T, 400 to 404, these locomotives had a very limited coal and water capacity.
But every so often you would find these locomotives hauling 5 coaches, and running outside of their limits. The locomotives would run to Framingham, Mass, and Milford, Mass
The distance from Boston to Framingham on the B&A is 21 miles, plus the run to Milford, Mass is an additional 12 miles.
Now they would more than likely take on water either at Framingham, or Milford, but no coal, then make the return trip back to Boston.
The 300's only had a carried 4,000 Gals of Water & 7tons of coal
The 400's carried 5,000 Gals of water, & 6 tons of coal.
The locomotives, for the most part, were very limited in hauling capacity but quick on horsepower.
Also, nomal power for the trains running out of Milford to Boston was the pacifics
Now as for CNR #47 yes the locomotive would be good for the short haul, but as for fighting the tough grades, she would have a problem. Simply the locomotive was NOT built for fighting the tough grades heading to Moscow, Pa.


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 Post subject: Re: CNR 46, 47, and 49 4-6-4T's
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:08 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1119
Location: Back in NE Ohio
A locomotive like CN #47 would be great for a 7-10 mile, one hour round trip excursion at no more than 25 mph on fairly level or slight grade trackage. Probably not for the railroads around Steamtown.


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 Post subject: Re: CNR 46, 47, and 49 4-6-4T's
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:33 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am
Posts: 534
Pat Fahey wrote:
Simply the locomotive was NOT built for fighting the tough grades heading to Moscow, Pa.


In this scenario, she wouldn't have to, either. I'll have to take a look at the roster and see what other locos would also fit the bill (TE of at least 30k, ease of operation, and ease of restoration).


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 Post subject: Re: CNR 46, 47, and 49 4-6-4T's
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:41 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5549
Location: southeastern USA
63" drivers on 47.... maximum power probably far above 25 MPH. These were made to crank up fast and run fast between quick stops at suburban depots on the way in and out of the city.

I'd be looking for a smaller-drivered mikado, or a light decapod.... perhaps a pair from China that can be worked hard without concern about conservation issues.

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 Post subject: Re: CNR 46, 47, and 49 4-6-4T's
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:00 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am
Posts: 534
Ok, from what I can see, CN 47 could be in contention with the following engines for restoration:

Rahway Valley #15 (35k TE)
Norwood and St Lawrence #210 (28k TE)
Maine Central #519 (37k TE)

Of the four choices, Rahway #15 and CN #47 were operated most recently (although I don't know if four decades ago could be considered recent). N&SL 210 and 47 both have all-weather cabs, a bonus in PA. I hesitate to mention Illinois Central #790, as she has a tractive effort of 42k - beyond the scope of what what is needed as a companion to #26.

My personal favorite of the bunch would have to be Maine Central #519, however Rahway #15 has a history of being on-site at Scranton during revenue service, and has no duplication issues (MC 519/BM 3713, or CN 3377/CN 47) so I would expect if the boiler is reasonably sound with no major chassis issues, the park service will choose her.


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 Post subject: Re: CNR 46, 47, and 49 4-6-4T's
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:36 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 4000
Location: Maine
My understanding is Rahway Valley #15 needs a new boiler. The study of Steamtown locomotives considered Maine Central 519 to not be appropriate for the park's needs, though no explanation was given. IC 790 needs firebox or crown sheet work. When you think about it, probably the NKP Berk is in the best condition for "rapid" restoration, just a little large.
We've certainly given the SNHS about $4,000,000 worth of work. Now all we have to do is get them the money for paid staff and materials. Easy, right?

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 Post subject: Re: CNR 46, 47, and 49 4-6-4T's
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:13 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:07 pm
Posts: 1041
Location: Leicester, MA.
6-18003 wrote:
Ok, from what I can see, CN 47 could be in contention with the following engines for restoration:

Rahway Valley #15 (35k TE)
Norwood and St Lawrence #210 (28k TE)
Maine Central #519 (37k TE)

Of the four choices, Rahway #15 and CN #47 were operated most recently (although I don't know if four decades ago could be considered recent). N&SL 210 and 47 both have all-weather cabs, a bonus in PA. I hesitate to mention Illinois Central #790, as she has a tractive effort of 42k - beyond the scope of what what is needed as a companion to #26.

My personal favorite of the bunch would have to be Maine Central #519, however Rahway #15 has a history of being on-site at Scranton during revenue service, and has no duplication issues (MC 519/BM 3713, or CN 3377/CN 47) so I would expect if the boiler is reasonably sound with no major chassis issues, the park service will choose her.


Now I'm going to go off topic for a moment here, but does #210 really have an all weather cab? When I was down a few weeks ago to help on 3713's tender frame and saw it, I thought that it had a normal cab on there...

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 Post subject: Re: CNR 46, 47, and 49 4-6-4T's
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:07 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:32 pm
Posts: 181
Well, if you are looking for more fuel and water space, an All Weather cab, and Canadian/Canadien... then why not 2929?

Merry Xmas, everybody!


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 Post subject: Re: CNR 46, 47, and 49 4-6-4T's
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:52 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am
Posts: 534
Tavor wrote:
Well, if you are looking for more fuel and water space, an All Weather cab, and Canadian/Canadien... then why not 2929?

Merry Xmas, everybody!


One of the best looking engines on the property, but TE is only 25k. NSL 210 was the weakest I felt they would be comfortable with at 28,400 TE and 56" drivers.


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 Post subject: Re: CNR 46, 47, and 49 4-6-4T's
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:12 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:27 pm
Posts: 420
Location: Milford,Mass
Hi
To answer daylight 4449 question about Norwood & St. Lawrence # 210 and the All Weather Cab, photo taken from Steamtown web site.
Attachment:
File comment: N& St. L # 210 photo from Steamtown web site.
nstl210.pdf (2).png
nstl210.pdf (2).png [ 340.39 KiB | Viewed 1210 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: CNR 46, 47, and 49 4-6-4T's
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 12:55 am 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am
Posts: 534
Image


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 Post subject: Re: CNR 46, 47, and 49 4-6-4T's
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 2:16 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:19 pm
Posts: 76
Might it be possible to develop a business plan where CNR 47 would become a locomotive that would take up an annual residence at tourist railroads and museums in the Northeast? Movement would take place via flatcar - 280,000lbs is a very heavy for an over-the-road move. The business model would be a similar to what has been adopted by some locomotive owners in Britain. Some of these locomotives have also received temporary paint and numbers to replicated scrapped locomotives.

I think a visit from CNR 47 (decorated for CNR, CNJ, or B&A) would attract new interest to many operations in a region where mainline steam has been scarce. But, would there be enough room in the budget to cover the costs of movement and maintenance to offer a visit fee that would be attractive to many operations?


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 Post subject: Re: CNR 46, 47, and 49 4-6-4T's
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:38 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 4000
Location: Maine
I like that last idea of a self-contained steamer doing well by doing good.
On a side note, why is the "Jubilee" without a stack cap??? Hello? Steamtown? You have at least one locomotive out in the weather with an open stack!

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 Post subject: Re: CNR 46, 47, and 49 4-6-4T's
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 12:05 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:07 pm
Posts: 1041
Location: Leicester, MA.
Going off topic AGAIN, but is it just me or does that coach in the picture that 6-18003 posted look decidedly British? That's something I don't remember seeing down there...

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