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 Post subject: Journal Packing
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:28 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 318
Location: Orrville, OH
To go along with the thread on journal oil.... I'm going to need to pick up some waste this spring so what are you using for journal packing nowadays? This was last discussed in 2009(?) and I wonder if anything has changed since then concerning suppliers and availability.

Thanks.

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Eric Schlentner
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 Post subject: Re: Journal Packing
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:58 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1312
Location: Youngstown, OH
For the 757 we are digging through back rooms and in boxes to gather up enough NOS pads to repack the tender journals because we haven't found any sources for new ones. Trailing truck journals are getting new Armstrong oilers from England.

Someone could probably make a nice side business out of manufacturing pads from readily available materials and marketing them to the tourist railroad market.

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Rick Rowlands
J&L Narrow Gauge Railroad
"The shortest and narrowest Railroad in Ohio"


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 Post subject: Re: Journal Packing
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:53 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:06 pm
Posts: 2222
Location: Thomaston & White Plains
Is Hooper Industries of Maryland (the last US maker of journal pads) finally out of business?

Howard P.

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 Post subject: Re: Journal Packing
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:39 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:14 pm
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I know my place of employment got an order about 2 years ago, we didn't last year because we had too many new ones floating around to justify the cost. I sure how they are still around.


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 Post subject: Re: Journal Packing
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:46 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
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Location: Orrville, OH
Howard,
Hooper had bought Journapak in the 70s(?). I think they either shut it down in the '80s or sold it off. I'm pretty foggy on the details. Either way, Journapak is no more.

As Rick mentioned, I think Armstrong is the last pad manufacturer.

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Eric Schlentner
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Last edited by jayrod on Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Journal Packing
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:48 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:06 am
Posts: 172
The info I have is Hooper Industries, Inc.; 2121 Druid Park Drive, Baltimore, MD 21211 410-462-4100 ....mld


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 Post subject: Re: Journal Packing
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:48 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:51 pm
Posts: 99
I had to source wool waste for a streetcar customer, last year. Miller Waste Mills Inc. in Winona, MN was able to supply 50 lb. bags of wool waste for journal bearings which is also used in the suspension and armature bearing, oil pockets of conventional traction motors. You have to cut the strands to appropriate lengths. This is old school, pre-Journalpak but works fine if properly done.

I was told last year by someone who was finally able to contact Hooper (they were often hard to get hold of) that they were no longer making journal pads but I will have to check my notes on this.


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 Post subject: Re: Journal Packing
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:00 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:05 pm
Posts: 20
The Friends of the C&TSRR used Hooper twice last in 2017. They ARE hard to get ahold of, I thing rather than leaving a message we just kept calling until a real person answered.


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 Post subject: Re: Journal Packing
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:21 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:05 pm
Posts: 20
Gord M:
You said that wool waste "works well if properly done"
Any advice on how to do it?

I like that idea as a backup plan to Hooper, with the added advantage that we won't have to worry about getting the right size pads.

-Clyde Putman
Volunteer with the Friends of the Cumbres and Toltec Scenic RR


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 Post subject: Re: Journal Packing
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:42 pm 

Joined: Thu May 21, 2015 9:33 am
Posts: 149
When I repacked the traction motors on my 80 ton I could not locate replacements so I bought cotton mop heads. Fit perfectly. Not sure if they would be thick enough for journal boxes, maybe stacking a couple and stitching them together to form a pad?

Ideally getting the real thing would be best.

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 Post subject: Re: Journal Packing
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:04 pm 
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Location: Orrville, OH
Clyde Putman wrote:
Gord M:
You said that wool waste "works well if properly done"
Any advice on how to do it?

I've seen numerous ways to "properly" pack a journal with waste. The only thing consistent among them is keeping below the center line.

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 Post subject: Re: Journal Packing
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:53 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:17 pm
Posts: 192
I have taken care of a GE 80 ton that was built new in 1951 for the last 14 years. It has short lengths of waste packing. the boxes are a little over full, but have never had any problems.

Sometimes, I open the journal box lids and push the waste down with my fingers.

If you have any nicks or burrs on the axles, then the waste can wrap around the axle and catch fire.


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 Post subject: Re: Journal Packing
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:02 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:01 pm
Posts: 1477
Location: SouthEast Pennsylvania
About 1980, South Eastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority had a problem with the wool waste they were using on Broad St. Subway motor bearings. One Urban Legend had it that what the sheep were eating caused their hair to be less absorbent and more oil proof.


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 Post subject: Re: Journal Packing
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:22 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:15 am
Posts: 490
Before we moved one of our coaches, I went looking for journal packing. The usual sources at the time were either out of stock, unwilling to give lead time or non-communicative. One of our members owned a quilting and knitting shop and had relationships with wool mills for custom dyed skeins. He could not get anyone to sell him untreated yarn, apparently all the yarns (commercially available) and the colors pigments used already have anti-staining treatment added, thus they won't properly (for our needs) absorb oils. This is the more likely cause for SEPTA's problem than the diet of the sheep.

We ended up using cotton mops, first they were cut in half (between the 2 lines of stitching), then they were installed with the ends wrapped under and into the cellar so that the loose ends were the furthest from the axle surfaces. IIRC it took 2 pieces (one mop) to do one coach journal box (I forget if she had 4.5" or 5" axles).

At the time I had found a diagram that gave the specs for the wool yarn (fiber length, yarn diameter, etc...), how to wind the pad sections and how to install them. I think I remember which book it was in, so tonight I will see if I can find it.

Rich C.


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 Post subject: Re: Journal Packing
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:07 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
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Location: Orrville, OH
Rich - A decent diagram would be nice instead of the cryptic diagrams or instructions I've run across.

The good news is that while cleaning out a box car, I found some Superior and Premier pads. Hopefully, I'll find more in another box car - rumor has it there are some. I haven't measured them yet but if they're for 6-1/2 X 12, I'll use them on the wrecker. I may also have found a barrel of clean wool waste, at least I hope it is. There was an identical open barrel that was destroyed by raccoons so none of it is usable.

I also found an AAR Lubrication Manual, January 1970 addition. This issue does not contain info on packing with waste, only pads. If anyone has an interest, I'll scan and post it online in PDF format for easy download.

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