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 Post subject: F40PH Preservation, Round Four...............
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:01 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8637
Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
Amtrak...........
MBTA..........
NJ Transit...........

And now the next-to-last, best chance for preserving intact, operable EMD F40PH locomotives, as reported by Trains Newswire:

Quote:
CHICAGO — Metra, Chicago’s commuter rail agency, plans to order 12 new or 15 re-manufactured locomotives in 2018, and may order dozens more if additional funding from the financially strapped state of Illinois is provided, the agency said Thursday.
The request for proposals, issued in late December, includes options for up to 30 additional new locomotives or 27 additional remanufactured locomotives, pegging the total potential purchase at 42 locomotives, the announcement said.
The agency said it is seeking proposals for both new and remanufactured locomotives because it wants to weigh the cost-benefits of both options. . . .
According to the agency, the Metra system currently operates 149 locomotives with 28 being the original F40PH models produced by the Electro-Motive Division of General Motors in LaGrange, Ill.
Most of Metra’s F40PH fleet have undergone in-house rehabilitation at Metra’s 47th Street shop. Beginning in 2008, 50 of the F40PH units underwent a more extensive overhaul by Progress Rail Services at their Mayfield, Ky., facility where these locomotives were essentially rebuilt.
In 2015, a second overhaul program for the F40PH and F40PHM models started at Progress Rail’s Patterson, Ga., facility.
The first F40PH locomotives entered service in Chicago on Sept. 30, 1977.
The RTA’s Commuter Rail Division, which later became Metra, began taking delivery of the first 28 in 1977. Orders were subsequently placed four more times for a total of 115 locomotives, with the last delivered to Metra in October 1989.
Over the years, Metra acquired three additional former Amtrak F40PHs for a total of 118.

If there are any ambitions for private preservation of operable HEP-equipped locomotives that will be more compatible with modern railroading after 2020 than an old Alco or E-unit, now's the time to start planning and fundraising. Maybe they'll end up with another 25-40 years on them--or maybe not.

(Meanwhile, there's still VIA Rail's fleet................)

Below: METRA 179 and 113, Chicago, July 23, 1993, by Chris Hash, Md. Rail Heritage Library collection


Attachments:
METRA 179, Chicago, IL, 7-23-93, by Chirs Hash (PGC), MRHL Coll..jpg
METRA 179, Chicago, IL, 7-23-93, by Chirs Hash (PGC), MRHL Coll..jpg [ 201.24 KiB | Viewed 2118 times ]


Last edited by Alexander D. Mitchell IV on Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: F40PH Preservatioon, Round Four...............
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:43 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:57 am
Posts: 167
Do any of the Metra F40s have independent HEP generators, or are they all still tied in to the prime mover?


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 Post subject: Re: F40PH Preservatioon, Round Four...............
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:52 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:30 am
Posts: 125
There's no preserved Amtrak F40PH? I thought at least one was saved and was operable.

I imagine IRM will work hard to save one of the early examples when the day comes, but the F40PH has a place at Metra for years to come.


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 Post subject: Re: F40PH Preservatioon, Round Four...............
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:20 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:28 pm
Posts: 336
LeoA: the North Carolina Transportation Museum has an Amtrak F40 in their collection, # 307. Believe it is inoperable.


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 Post subject: Re: F40PH Preservation, Round Four...............
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:27 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8637
Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
North Carolina Transportation Museum has 307. As remarked, it is inoperable (and for the moment, rusting).

California State RR Museum got 281. Shoved off in a back track, about as good-looking and secure as the Santa Fe diesels that have been rusting away.

231 was preserved privately by an individual in the Portland, Oregon area along with SDP40F 644. Both are currently in Ogden, Utah.

Many are in use by other operators scattered about, including (but not limited to) CSX, Nashville RTA, the Grand Canyon Railway, various Iowa Pacific operations (SL&RG, Saratoga & North Creek, etc.), the Panama RR, Metra, and others. Others have been made into "cabbages" by Amtrak. None can thus far be considered proper "preservation" of an intact Amtrak loco, but if the objective is to preserve operable passenger power for future excursions, the opportunity extends to these examples as well.

See http://on-track-on-line.com/amtkrinf-f40activ.shtml


Last edited by Alexander D. Mitchell IV on Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: F40PH Preservatioon, Round Four...............
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:59 am 

Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:21 pm
Posts: 87
Zak Lybrand wrote:
Do any of the Metra F40s have independent HEP generators, or are they all still tied in to the prime mover?


Zak,

I saw some of the Metra rebuilds at the Progress Rail shop in Patterson last year. They are running HEP with the gear drive off the prime mover, but the generator is smaller than the ones that Amtrak was using. I believe about 500 kw vs. 800 kw. Still requires 960 RPM or something, but less load and should be slightly less fuel consumption.

Eric


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 Post subject: Re: F40PH Preservatioon, Round Four...............
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:03 am 

Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:57 am
Posts: 167
Funny it should be you to reply to me, Eric - I was wondering if these might be any good for YOU (and another operation I'm involved with, but that's beside the point).


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 Post subject: Re: F40PH Preservatioon, Round Four...............
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:59 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:26 pm
Posts: 84
Location: Pure Michigan
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
231 was preserved privately by an individual in the Portland, Oregon area along with SDP40F 644. Both are currently in Ogden, Utah.


Wasn't this individual recently evicted from Ogden Union Station?


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 Post subject: Re: F40PH Preservatioon, Round Four...............
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:27 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3861
Location: Maine
I find it a bit shocking that people jump of the IRM as a first choice for locomotive preservation. I've yet to visit them, but maybe I'm unaware of unlimited space and unlimited funds? Most organization are juggling what they've collected or had inflicted upon them, with available money.

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 Post subject: Re: F40PH Preservatioon, Round Four...............
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:50 pm 

Joined: Thu May 21, 2015 9:33 am
Posts: 127
NS 3322 wrote:
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
231 was preserved privately by an individual in the Portland, Oregon area along with SDP40F 644. Both are currently in Ogden, Utah.


Wasn't this individual recently evicted from Ogden Union Station?


They were both still there when I stopped in middle of last month.


Attachments:
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20171215_123103-1008x756.jpg [ 206.82 KiB | Viewed 1440 times ]
20171215_123209-1008x756.jpg
20171215_123209-1008x756.jpg [ 204.86 KiB | Viewed 1440 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: F40PH Preservation, Round Four...............
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:44 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8637
Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
LeoA wrote:
I imagine IRM will work hard to save one of the early examples when the day comes, but the F40PH has a place at Metra for years to come.


1) This "years to come" presumes that someone doesn't sweep in with an offer for a much "better" replacement, which from the apparent RFP could be anything from new locos with much better emissions and power output to complete rebuilding of the extant F40PH's (and other locos?) on Metra with new innards. The current fleet could "disappear overnight" like the AEM-7 almost did (about a year and a half from first ASC64 run to AEM-7 farewell), or be rendered something completely different, like a chop-nose GP10 out of a high-hood GP9 or the 645-equipped BN/Metra E8/E9 rebuilds--nice RR history, but not the "vintage loco." And as we've seen with other locos in this forum, political dictates driving anything from emissions output to "local content" could affect the proposal terms and acceptance.

2) IRM gets raised as a possibility not simply because of their good track record, but IN THIS CASE it's a local "landmark" loco, operating almost daily right to the vicinity of the museum, if not yet at its doorstep. IRM has become, by design, the default RR museum for the Chicago METRA-politan region, which also includes La Grange/EMD where these were built, and indeed they should have turned down an Amtrak F40PH just to save room for a Metra one, just like the RR Museum of Pa. went for Amtrak electrics (E60 built in Pa., AEM-7 assembled in Pa.) rather than diesels.

Having said this, my own personal thought is to see at least a pair (and spares) put somewhere, anywhere, where the hope exists for mainline excursion operation, for use on Amtrak, AAPRRCO, NRHS, etc. excursions as "needed" to avoid most of the arguments against such excursions: "not Amtrak compatible," "doesn't have PTC," "unfamiliar mechanicals," "no HEP," etc. (As but one stupid example: A quick perusal of employee TTs shows that a lot of diesel loco classes are prohibited from two branch lines of my acquaintance--but not F40PH's!)


Last edited by Alexander D. Mitchell IV on Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: F40PH Preservatioon, Round Four...............
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:50 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:45 am
Posts: 69
Richard Glueck wrote:
I find it a bit shocking that people jump of the IRM as a first choice for locomotive preservation. I've yet to visit them, but maybe I'm unaware of unlimited space and unlimited funds? Most organization are juggling what they've collected or had inflicted upon them, with available money.



IRM is a significant museum, and they have a pretty comprehensive collection policy. They of course have a significant relationship with METRA and the history of Chicago area rail operations, so having an F40HP from METRA would be a very likely item that they would want to collect. They have a system of needing funding for track space for any new piece of equipment. This must be met prior to the item being added to the collection. This ensures that there will be space for it, and that it also fits into their collection. I would have to agree that they are often one of the first organizations mentioned when these topics come up, but that is also due to their success and their progressive collection management.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: F40PH Preservatioon, Round Four...............
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:18 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:54 pm
Posts: 55
NS 3322 wrote:
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
231 was preserved privately by an individual in the Portland, Oregon area along with SDP40F 644. Both are currently in Ogden, Utah.


Wasn't this individual recently evicted from Ogden Union Station?



The locomotives are owned by Dynamic Rail Preservation Inc. and DynaRail was not served an eviction (such a harsh word!) but rather notified of future changes. DynaRail was originally given an opportunity to establish a restoration work area to return both units back into Amtrak liveries, but as time progressed, we held back from setting up shop since it was clear the city had other plans to develop the parcel. Knowing what we knew, it would have been irresponsible for us to proceed with capital expenditures using funds donated to us, only to have them evaporate with nothing to show for it. The foundation that managed Union Station had given DynaRail verbal notice that, due to space constraints and the need to move other locomotives and cars to the tracks locomotives #231 and #644 are currently spotted, equipment not owned by Union Station or the city would need to vacate the premises or pay storage fees. A short time later, the city council dissolved the foundation's control, and city departments/employees took over management of the depot.

DynaRail announced that a search was on for a new place for the locomotives to call home. The criteria, obviously, being that the locomotives can proceed with restorative work to be returned back into its in-service liveries, and that they contribute to the museum by being a shining example of Amtrak history. Ogden played a crucial role in helping the locomotives escape from continued vandalism during their storage in Portland in a urgent manner, and I am forever grateful for that. There are many individuals in Ogden continuing to fight the good battle in name of rail preservation, so all is not lost in regards to potential clearing of the rail center for development; however, five years has passed since the original plan, so it's time to move on and relocate to a new place.


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 Post subject: Re: F40PH Preservatioon, Round Four...............
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:31 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:22 pm
Posts: 202
hadder wrote:
Zak Lybrand wrote:
Do any of the Metra F40s have independent HEP generators, or are they all still tied in to the prime mover?


Zak,

I saw some of the Metra rebuilds at the Progress Rail shop in Patterson last year. They are running HEP with the gear drive off the prime mover, but the generator is smaller than the ones that Amtrak was using. I believe about 500 kw vs. 800 kw. Still requires 960 RPM or something, but less load and should be slightly less fuel consumption.

Eric


I think the VIA units are also the smaller HEP, they use a slightly different system with redundancy which requires 2 sources (locomotives usually) and 1100 kw is about all the standard HEP system can handle.

CD


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 Post subject: Re: F40PH Preservatioon, Round Four...............
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:45 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am
Posts: 445
They would look good in EL colors operating over the PNERRA, if the Lackawanna Cut-Off ever gets rebuilt...


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