It is currently Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:52 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Route of Flying Scotsman across America in 1969
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:58 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:25 am
Posts: 1
Hello everyone.

My names Andy Hardy and i'm a steam loco driver in the UK. I am currently doing a little research and am trying to trace the route of Flying Scotsman across the US on its first part of its tour in 1969.

Can anyone tell me the route taken and the Cities and States visited.

Ideally i'm trying to complete the facts to this statement:

"Over 39 days Flying Scotsman visited xx States and xx Cities - from Boston to Dallas and from x to x"

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Andy Hardy
(UK steam loco driver whose slowly being converted to American engines after a day on the footplate of TVRM 630)


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Route of Flying Scotsman across America in 1969
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:49 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:28 am
Posts: 257
Location: Suffolk, UK
This was a thread on here a while back..
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=39528&start=15&hilit=Flying+Scotsman

_________________
My Flikr page https://www.flickr.com/photos/72399068@N08/sets


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Route of Flying Scotsman across America in 1969
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:12 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:05 pm
Posts: 707
I saw the Scotsman in Baltimore in October 1969. Here is part of the Schedule:

Left Boston, MA October 12, 1969
Hartford, CT October 13
Baltimore, MD October 24
Dallas, TX November 4
Houston, TX November 10
Slaton, TX for the winter
Slaton>Dallas>Fort Worth>Kansas City>St. Louis
Arrived Green Bay, WI July 19, 1970
Arrived in San Francisco, CA September 27, 1971


Online
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Route of Flying Scotsman across America in 1969
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:18 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:05 pm
Posts: 707
Little bit more:

However, the train ran from Boston to New York City, Washington, D.C. and Dallas in 1969; from Texas to Wisconsin and finishing in Montreal in 1970; and from Toronto to San Francisco in 1971 — a total of 15,400 miles (24,800 km).[19


Online
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Route of Flying Scotsman across America in 1969
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:47 pm 

Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 5:33 pm
Posts: 10
I was living in Kansas City at the time. It got in to KC Union Station on 6/23/1970 and stayed for a week. On 6/25 I had a tour through the cab. 0n 6/30 it traveled to St Louis, I believe on the N&W (Wabash).


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Route of Flying Scotsman across America in 1969
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:12 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2226
I saw it in 69, shot 8mm film of it running on the Nickel Plate thru Ft Wayne. Trains or Railroad/Railfan ran an article fairly recently on the trips. It was holed up in San Fransisco for a while due to financial problems but finally got back to England.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Route of Flying Scotsman across America in 1969
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:00 am 

Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:28 pm
Posts: 259
Location: Northern WV
I'm almost positive I read an article in TRAINS magazine within the last year or two written by someone who was on the Flying Scotsman crew detailing their trip across the country. I pass my magazines on to a railfan friend so I no longer have access to the article, Unless I was dreaming, I believe there was a map with the piece in question.


UPDATE: After a little googling, I found the TRAINS web site listing back issues for sale.
http://trn.trains.com/issues

As I remember, it was a pretty thorough coverage of the Flying Scotsman's American travels. The October 2016 issue is the one you want.


Attachments:
flying_scotsman_issue.jpg
flying_scotsman_issue.jpg [ 32.22 KiB | Viewed 1069 times ]

_________________
Roger Cole


Last edited by WVNorthern on Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Route of Flying Scotsman across America in 1969
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:53 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:18 am
Posts: 117
Location: B'more MD
The train crossed the Nickel Plate (by then Norfolk & Western or Norfolk-Southern - not sure of the merger date) west of Cleveland. I have slides and super-8mm movies of the train crossing the B&O/NKP diamond at Lorain, Ohio. I'll see if I can find them in one of the yellow boxes, and post a few.

G.F.Payne
B'more, MD

_________________
George F.Payne
Baltimore, MD


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Route of Flying Scotsman across America in 1969
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:04 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8820
Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
For the record, this is as complete as I was able to compile the itinerary for Trains Magazine; I did the original edit and fact-check of the late Hinchcliffe's long-ago-submitted manuscript and compiled the following for Wrinn after his request. I (foolishly) thought it would take me a day or two; it took closer to a month of slogging research and appeals, and that with first-hand material about me and tons of trivial (and at times wildly inaccurate) personal anecdotes contributed.

Flying Scotsman in North America – Itinerary

Loaded in Britain Sept 18
Arrived Boston Harbor aboard Saxonia Sept. 28, 1969.
Shakedown run over Penn Central ex-New Haven Boston-New London Oct 3, then on display
Official opening Oct 8th Boston South Station Oct 8-11
Via Penn Central (ex-NH) South Station to Hartford, CT Oct 12-13
PC ex-NH via Hell Gate Bridge (GG1 pilot) to
NYC Penn Station Oct 14-18, dep. 19th AM
Philadelphia Oct 19-23 via PC ex-PRR (towed Penn Station-Harrison NJ for fire-up)
Baltimore Oct 23-24 PC ex-PRR pulled by GG1 4845 to
Washington DC Oct. 25-27 via PC ex-PRR
Oct 28: DC-Salisbury, NC via SR with servicing at Monroe and Lynchburg
Oct 29: Salisbury-Gainesville, GA via SR
Oct 30: Gainesville-Atlanta via SR
Atlanta, GA Oct 30th-Nov. 1
Atlanta-Birmingham Nov 2 via SR with meet with SR steam excursions with S&A 750 and SR 4501 at Anniston, Alabama—headlight removed for this lap
Birmingham, AL Nov 2
Nov. 3: Birmingham-Meridian, Miss. via SR, Meridian-Vicksburg, Miss. via IC
Nov. 4: Vickburg-Shreveport IC, Shreveport-Tyler OR Mineola via MoPac
Nov. 5: Tyler/Mineola -Dallas via MP
Dallas Nov. 6-7 display (reports indicate Nov. 4th actual arrival)
Fort Worth T&P depot Nov. 9
Nov 9-10: Dallas/FW-Bryan-Houston via MoPac
Houston, TX display Nov. 10-15
Nov 17 pass thru Brenham, Tx on ATSF
In storage Slaton, TX (ATSF) roundhouse Nov. 1969
Unconfirmed reports indicate loco also traversed Burlington/RI trackage during 1969



Proposed/announced 1970 Itinerary:

4-17 Slaton, TX
4-18 Lubbock
4-19 Clovis, NM
4-20 Belen
4-21 Winslow
4-22 Williams Jct. And Seligman
4-23 Barstow, CA
4-24 to 5-3 San Diego
5-4 to 5-10 Los Angeles
5-11 Bakersfield
5-12 to 5-17 San Francisco
5-18 Redding
5-19 Klamath Falls
5-20 Eugene
5-21 to 24 Portland, Ore.
5-25/26 Tacoma
5-27 to 31 Seattle
6-1 to 14 Vancouver
6-15 Kamloops
6-16 Jasper
6-17 to 21 Edmonton
6-22/23Calgary
6-24 Medicine Hat
6-25 Moose Jaw
6-26/28 Regina
6-29 Brandon
6-30 to 7-8 Winnipeg
7-9 Moorhead
7-10 to 12 Minneapolis
7-21 to 8-19 Green Bay NRM
8-20 Milwaukee
8-21 to 30 Chicago
8-31 South Bend
9-1 to 6 Detroit
9-7/8 London, Ont.
9-9 to 16 Toronto
9-18 to 20 Niagara Falls
9-21 to 27 Buffalo
9-28 to 10-4 Pittsburgh
10-5 to 11 Cleveland
10-12/13 Toledo
10-14 South Bend
10-15 Chicago
10-16 Milwaukee
10-17 Green Bay NRM for winter

ACTUAL 1970:

Late June Slaton-Mileta-Brownwood-Lometa-Temple, TX assume Katy thru Fort Worth and Denison (service/sales stop, June 20th) and MacAlester, OK to Muskogee
Derailed Waco, TX June 18th, damage to journal repaired at Cleburne, TX ATSF loco shop
Katy via Staley, Ok. and Parsons, Kansas (June 20?)
Kansas City display until 6-29
6-30-70 Kansas City-Mexico-Wright City (ICG to Mexico, N&W [ex-Wabash?] to St. Louis) to St. Louis (display at Union Station)

Depart Tuesday July 7 via Decatur, IL, via N&W ex-Wabash to Chicago
Arrival Chicago July 7; One-week stay in Chicago Dearborn Station, then north via C&NW July 19th, to Green Bay, WI arriving close to July 20th

At NRM Green Bay July 20th-August 15th
Aug. 17-18 C&NW freight line XX –Waxdale, WI-Chicago 40th St yard C&NW
To Detroit via EJ&E Dyer, Il.

Aug 20, 1970: Detroit-St. Clair Tunnel-Sarnia, Ont.
Aug 21: Hamilton, Burlington, Toronto
Aug. 22nd-Sept. 7: CN Exhibition, Toronto
Sept. 8: Toronto-Belleville-Ottawa, in display in Ottawa Sept. 9-17
Sept. 18: Ottawa-Montreal, on display near Vertu Station/Ballantyne 18th-27th
Sept. 28: Montreal-Brockville-Kingston
Sept 30: Kingston-Toronto-Hamilton
Oct 1: On display Hamilton, James Street
Oct. 2: Hamilton-Niagara Falls
Oct. 31: Niagara Falls-Toronto Spadina roundhouse for storage

Exhibition train offered for sale Nov 1970 Trains, address at Green Bay

Winter 1970-71: Spadina roundhouse, Toronto—train stored CN Bathurst Yard Toronto with Pullman Lydia and Devon Belle obs stored at Procor siding, Bronte (Toronto area)

1971 AUGUST Spadina-Buffalo (via CN Grimsby subdivision to Fort Erie); crossing over the International Bridge and into International Yard on the US side of the Niagara River; to PC ex-NYC Belt Line, then on to SK - which at that time was the west end of Bison Yard. Train transferred to the NKP main from Bison yard, joint EL/N&W at time.
West via NKP Lorain, Ohio 9-2-71 (George Payne movie/photo)
Thru Chicago region via unknown routing, probably EJ&E
West through Northwest on BN former Great Northern (bad lignite loaded in N.D.)
Sept 13th Whitefish, MT (24 hours behind)-Spokane via BN ex-GN
14th Spokane-Pasco, Washington over BN ex-NP
Sept 16 Pasco-Wishram, Wash. Via ex-SP&S Columbia River line, then south on Oregon Trunk to Bend, Oregon
Sept. 17th: Bend-Klamath Falls via BN
Oroville
Sept. 27th: WP into Oakland, CA via Stockton, then Fisherman's Wharf, San Francisco
Oct. 1971: San Francisco British Week

1972:
March 14th: first run of loco on Pier line, San Francisco Belt Line as excursion trip
still running 6-18-72
Removed from SF via WP (SF-Oakland via car ferry Las Plumas) to Sharpe army Depot, Lathrop, CA Aug. 13


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Route of Flying Scotsman across America in 1969
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:36 pm 

Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:22 am
Posts: 481
I know it was in Minneapolis, MN, I just don't know when.

From the above it looks like 1971.

I didn't see it, but I talked to people who did.

It was displayed? Serviced? at the Minneapolis Junction Roundhouse (BN ex-GN) and at least some local railfans toured the train.

-Hudson


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Route of Flying Scotsman across America in 1969
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:40 pm 

Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 5:33 pm
Posts: 10
Perhaps this is nit picking, but I have photos of the Flying Scotsman in Brunswick, MO which suggests it was on the N&W not the ICG most of the way from KC to St Louis on 6/30/70.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Route of Flying Scotsman across America in 1969
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:18 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8820
Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
Peter Becker wrote:
Perhaps this is nit picking, but I have photos of the Flying Scotsman in Brunswick, MO which suggests it was on the N&W not the ICG most of the way from KC to St Louis on 6/30/70.

I've learned the hard way--through many other examples of miscaptioned, misdated, and misidentified photos over the decades, including for this 4472 itinerary project--that unless you and/or the photographer are willing to testify that you/he took the photo in question, and proved to be a reliable note-taker and captioner, such "suggestions" aren't worth much.

Having said that: Looking at the maps, I have no idea why ICG would/should have been involved at all between St.Louis and KC, but Brunswick on former Wabash still fits whatever scenario I pieced together from whatever sources at the time.


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], John T, MD Ramsey, usa4076 and 45 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: