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 Post subject: Re: More Rolling Stock Up For Grabs At Royal Gorge Scenic, C
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:03 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
Posts: 793
PMC wrote:
car57 wrote:
And its leaving by rail so yes you can it get it moved anywhere

Mike P


Have you seen news of the dome moving by rail?

I have seen almost unbelievable quotes for getting cars certified to be moved by Amtrak (e.g., the New Mexico group restoring 2926 had a baggage car donated to them to use as a tool car, but say this in a gofundme request: "The former AT&SF 3939 baggage car is generously being donated to the New Mexico Steam Locomotive and Railroad Historical Society. However, the car needs inspection, repairs, and AMTRAK certification of its trucks at a cost of $100,000.")

Some of this may be for HEP cabling, which Amtrak requires before they'll move anything, and it may be that the dome already has it since it was in Amtrak service into the 1980s. I still think moving it over the highway would be cheaper, unless you plan to use it as a private car in Amtrak consists.


I don't remember seeing anything about Amtrak being involved in this particular car movement. If it's just a shell anyway, what the heck would/could Amtrak have to say about it that a freight railroad wouldn't, anyway? Especially if it is not going to be moved to a new owner by Amtrak? Does it need Amtrak trucks and HEP to be moved to a new owner on freight trains when it is totally unfit to be occupied yet?

I suspect they are saying the NM car will need all that before it can be used in service, which is way different than moving it to a shop where the needed work to meet Amtrak standards can be done.


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 Post subject: Re: More Rolling Stock Up For Grabs At Royal Gorge Scenic, C
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:28 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 622
Lincoln Penn wrote:

I don't remember seeing anything about Amtrak being involved in this particular car movement. If it's just a shell anyway, what the heck would/could Amtrak have to say about it that a freight railroad wouldn't, anyway? Especially if it is not going to be moved to a new owner by Amtrak? Does it need Amtrak trucks and HEP to be moved to a new owner on freight trains when it is totally unfit to be occupied yet?

I suspect they are saying the NM car will need all that before it can be used in service, which is way different than moving it to a shop where the needed work to meet Amtrak standards can be done.


You may be right, but the next sentence in the gofuundme is "Once it is in Albuquerque it will cost another $50,000 to outfit the car’s interior." which really gives the impression it would be moving by Amtrak. Moving it by freight railroad without Amtrak to Albuquerque would require BNSF involvement, and I have seen reports that they won't move passenger cars, although again nothing definitive.

Edit: is it possible that they need it Amtrak certified if they are looking ahead to running 2926 under Amtrak authority? But the wording of the gofundme doesn't give that impression, it gives the impression that they need it Amtrak certified just to get it to Albuquerque..


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 Post subject: Re: More Rolling Stock Up For Grabs At Royal Gorge Scenic, C
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:50 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
Posts: 793
PMC wrote:
Lincoln Penn wrote:

I suspect they are saying the NM car will need all that before it can be used in service, which is way different than moving it to a shop where the needed work to meet Amtrak standards can be done.


You may be right, but the next sentence in the gofuundme is "Once it is in Albuquerque it will cost another $50,000 to outfit the car’s interior." which really gives the impression it would be moving by Amtrak. Moving it by freight railroad without Amtrak to Albuquerque would require BNSF involvement, and I have seen reports that they won't move passenger cars, although again nothing definitive.

Edit: is it possible that they need it Amtrak certified if they are looking ahead to running 2926 under Amtrak authority? But the wording of the gofundme doesn't give that impression, it gives the impression that they need it Amtrak certified just to get it to Albuquerque..


Your edit is exactly what I was thinking. And I could be wrong, as well.


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 Post subject: Re: More Rolling Stock Up For Grabs At Royal Gorge Scenic, C
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:12 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:12 am
Posts: 720
Location: cheyenne
I'm confused here 'what go fund me are we talking about for what car ?
The SP dome will move out to further storage by rail soon. I have been involved on it for the past 6 to 8 weeks.


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 Post subject: Re: More Rolling Stock Up For Grabs At Royal Gorge Scenic, C
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:22 pm 

Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 9:19 pm
Posts: 40
The SP home-built domes were built from a variety of cars. They were painted in a variety of schemes, including GS, Daylight, Armor Yellow/Grey. They were hardly the heaviest domes or cars - that would be the MILW Super Domes (at the time, I think the so-called domes built in the 90s were heavier).

The concept that there were clearance issues is somewhat misleading. The issues weren't the height of the cars per se, but the oscillation and the super elevation combined with the issues inherent with wooden (and many cement/concrete tunnels/snow sheds).

When I was on a CZ that was detoured on the Donner Route, they kicked us out of the CZ domes - again, not because they were afraid of the height issues, but the issues of a car moving side to side at the top of the arc - the same reason that stacks fit but wouldn't "go" until they took a few feet out of the floors and re-laid track. Same thing happened to every dome they tried on the SFZ&CZ of Amtrak - they kicked you out of the domes on the (arguably) most scenic portions. A *LOT* of people declared that SP was simply jealous of the "better" CZ domes, but that wasn't it.

Those domes were horrendous for sightseeing, great for cocktail parties. Seeing forward, as on any of the larger domes, was not great, not much better than a Superliner Lounge car. That's why the seats on most were angled or sited to the sides. It got people under glass, and "had more dome seats" but not the best sight views.

For the money, SP got their value. Most of them were extant into the 2000s. There was one stuck on the road to Napa for decades, one or two went to Panama. As for 4449 wanting it - they likely have a lot more use for money than putting that thing together again. OTOH, park it at their roundhouse, have cocktail parties, fund raising dinners and the like. Then it might be worthwhile rebuilding it. But....those windows are a LOT of money. I believe at least one of those things used a Shasta Daylight car as a base, which means it had some mighty large windows to replace. And the Budd windows are not inexpensive to replace (in the dome). I know the Pullman Library has the base car drawings, and a few of the Budd kit - and Budd's test report on them (which I believe Jeff used in the SPT&HS book on SP's lounges/parlors/domes).


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 Post subject: Re: More Rolling Stock Up For Grabs At Royal Gorge Scenic, C
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:03 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:32 pm
Posts: 175
Not to derail from the current SP car discussion (I <3 SP) but what is the status and mechanical condition of Lion's Bay?


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 Post subject: Re: More Rolling Stock Up For Grabs At Royal Gorge Scenic, C
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:31 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
Posts: 793
From what CCRG Management told me, some of the equipment is now spoken for.

Not sure if that exBC Rail car is still up for purchase or not, but I bet the contact listed at the OP could tell you a lot more about it and whether it is still available or not.

They need to update that list.


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 Post subject: Re: More Rolling Stock Up For Grabs At Royal Gorge Scenic, C
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:28 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:12 am
Posts: 720
Location: cheyenne
Lions Bay maybe available but PM me for loads of interior photographs, exterior wise she is in great shape.

Mike P


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