More Rolling Stock Up For Grabs At Royal Gorge Scenic, Co.

Lincoln Penn · **Joined:** Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm **Posts:** 822

PMC wrote:

car57 wrote:

And its leaving by rail so yes you can it get it moved anywhere

Mike P

Have you seen news of the dome moving by rail?

I have seen almost unbelievable quotes for getting cars certified to be moved by Amtrak (e.g., the New Mexico group restoring 2926 had a baggage car donated to them to use as a tool car, but say this in a gofundme request: "The former AT&SF 3939 baggage car is generously being donated to the New Mexico Steam Locomotive and Railroad Historical Society. However, the car needs inspection, repairs, and AMTRAK certification of its trucks at a cost of $100,000.")

Some of this may be for HEP cabling, which Amtrak requires before they'll move anything, and it may be that the dome already has it since it was in Amtrak service into the 1980s. I still think moving it over the highway would be cheaper, unless you plan to use it as a private car in Amtrak consists.

I don't remember seeing anything about Amtrak being involved in this particular car movement. If it's just a shell anyway, what the heck would/could Amtrak have to say about it that a freight railroad wouldn't, anyway? Especially if it is not going to be moved to a new owner by Amtrak? Does it need Amtrak trucks and HEP to be moved to a new owner on freight trains when it is totally unfit to be occupied yet?

I suspect they are saying the NM car will need all that before it can be used in service, which is way different than moving it to a shop where the needed work to meet Amtrak standards can be done.

PMC · **Joined:** Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm **Posts:** 927

Lincoln Penn wrote:

I don't remember seeing anything about Amtrak being involved in this particular car movement. If it's just a shell anyway, what the heck would/could Amtrak have to say about it that a freight railroad wouldn't, anyway? Especially if it is not going to be moved to a new owner by Amtrak? Does it need Amtrak trucks and HEP to be moved to a new owner on freight trains when it is totally unfit to be occupied yet?

I suspect they are saying the NM car will need all that before it can be used in service, which is way different than moving it to a shop where the needed work to meet Amtrak standards can be done.

You may be right, but the next sentence in the gofuundme is "Once it is in Albuquerque it will cost another $50,000 to outfit the car’s interior." which really gives the impression it would be moving by Amtrak. Moving it by freight railroad without Amtrak to Albuquerque would require BNSF involvement, and I have seen reports that they won't move passenger cars, although again nothing definitive.

Edit: is it possible that they need it Amtrak certified if they are looking ahead to running 2926 under Amtrak authority? But the wording of the gofundme doesn't give that impression, it gives the impression that they need it Amtrak certified just to get it to Albuquerque..

Lincoln Penn · **Joined:** Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm **Posts:** 822

PMC wrote:

Lincoln Penn wrote:

I suspect they are saying the NM car will need all that before it can be used in service, which is way different than moving it to a shop where the needed work to meet Amtrak standards can be done.

You may be right, but the next sentence in the gofuundme is "Once it is in Albuquerque it will cost another $50,000 to outfit the car’s interior." which really gives the impression it would be moving by Amtrak. Moving it by freight railroad without Amtrak to Albuquerque would require BNSF involvement, and I have seen reports that they won't move passenger cars, although again nothing definitive.

Edit: is it possible that they need it Amtrak certified if they are looking ahead to running 2926 under Amtrak authority? But the wording of the gofundme doesn't give that impression, it gives the impression that they need it Amtrak certified just to get it to Albuquerque..

Your edit is exactly what I was thinking. And I could be wrong, as well.

car57 · **Posted:** Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:12 am

I'm confused here 'what go fund me are we talking about for what car ?
The SP dome will move out to further storage by rail soon. I have been involved on it for the past 6 to 8 weeks.

rswebber · **Joined:** Thu May 03, 2007 9:19 pm **Posts:** 42

The SP home-built domes were built from a variety of cars. They were painted in a variety of schemes, including GS, Daylight, Armor Yellow/Grey. They were hardly the heaviest domes or cars - that would be the MILW Super Domes (at the time, I think the so-called domes built in the 90s were heavier).

The concept that there were clearance issues is somewhat misleading. The issues weren't the height of the cars per se, but the oscillation and the super elevation combined with the issues inherent with wooden (and many cement/concrete tunnels/snow sheds).

When I was on a CZ that was detoured on the Donner Route, they kicked us out of the CZ domes - again, not because they were afraid of the height issues, but the issues of a car moving side to side at the top of the arc - the same reason that stacks fit but wouldn't "go" until they took a few feet out of the floors and re-laid track. Same thing happened to every dome they tried on the SFZ&CZ of Amtrak - they kicked you out of the domes on the (arguably) most scenic portions. A *LOT* of people declared that SP was simply jealous of the "better" CZ domes, but that wasn't it.

Those domes were horrendous for sightseeing, great for cocktail parties. Seeing forward, as on any of the larger domes, was not great, not much better than a Superliner Lounge car. That's why the seats on most were angled or sited to the sides. It got people under glass, and "had more dome seats" but not the best sight views.

For the money, SP got their value. Most of them were extant into the 2000s. There was one stuck on the road to Napa for decades, one or two went to Panama. As for 4449 wanting it - they likely have a lot more use for money than putting that thing together again. OTOH, park it at their roundhouse, have cocktail parties, fund raising dinners and the like. Then it might be worthwhile rebuilding it. But....those windows are a LOT of money. I believe at least one of those things used a Shasta Daylight car as a base, which means it had some mighty large windows to replace. And the Budd windows are not inexpensive to replace (in the dome). I know the Pullman Library has the base car drawings, and a few of the Budd kit - and Budd's test report on them (which I believe Jeff used in the SPT&HS book on SP's lounges/parlors/domes).

Tavor · **Joined:** Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:32 pm **Posts:** 192

Not to derail from the current SP car discussion (I <3 SP) but what is the status and mechanical condition of Lion's Bay?

Lincoln Penn · **Joined:** Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm **Posts:** 822

From what CCRG Management told me, some of the equipment is now spoken for.

Not sure if that exBC Rail car is still up for purchase or not, but I bet the contact listed at the OP could tell you a lot more about it and whether it is still available or not.

They need to update that list.

car57 · **Posted:** Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:28 am

Lions Bay maybe available but PM me for loads of interior photographs, exterior wise she is in great shape.

Mike P

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:45 pm

In an update that will stun anyone that simply shrugged at the SP dome last year:

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/20 ... -car-fleet

Selective quotes, read the whole thing at the link (it's NOT behind the subscriber paywall):

Quote:

Canadian Pacific dome car Selkirk entered service with the railroads Heritage Fleet this summer after an extensive rebuilding. The ex-Southern Pacific dome was rebuilt in the former locomotive shop at Ogden Yard in Calgary under the supervision of Kevin Hrysak, senior manager of heritage operations, and Justin Tracy, manager of heritage operations and Mechanical. For its first trip, the car operated from Calgary to Banff and Golden and return. . . .

The Canadian Pacific car was fabricated from SP tavern car No. 10312, built by Pullman Standard in 1937, and was outshopped in May 1955 for Shasta Daylight service. It became Amtrak No. 9374 in 1972, and was retired in 1981. It then went through a succession of owners before being sold in 2000 to the Royal Gorge Route where it ended up in storage when the railroad purchased three other full-length domes.

When CP purchased the car was it was essentially a shell, with windows missing and no interior furnishings. According to Tracy, that actually was beneficial, since CP planned to tear the car down to a shell anyway before inspection and rebuilding could begin. “Any way you look at it, it was a ground up restoration,” Tracy says. Work on the car began in August 2018 and it entered service on June 13, 2019. . . .

Plans call for the car to be used on company specials, and eventually on charter trips of the Royal Canadian Pacific.
In addition to the CP car, four other ex-SP cars survive, but only one is in railroad service. No. 3603 is painted in Kansas City Southern’s “Southern Belle” colors and used on Panama Canal Railway passenger trains between Panama City and Colon."

Photo from Canadian Pacific:

6-18003 · **Joined:** Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am **Posts:** 608

We'll take all the happy endings we can get. Kudos to all involved.

Tails · **Joined:** Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:14 pm **Posts:** 109

Holy cow. That was a fast turn around. Glad to see it saved....and a plus that its operating

PMC · **Joined:** Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm **Posts:** 927

Wow, that is almost unbelievable, didn't see that coming. I wasn't optimistic about the suitability of that heavy car on a tourist operation with typical branch line track, this is the best case scenario.

Edit: here it was a year and a half ago:

More Rolling Stock Up For Grabs At Royal Gorge Scenic, Co.

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