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 Post subject: Re: GE 1941 23 Ton Switcher
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:21 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:43 am
Posts: 498
Seems pretty premature when you've never seen it run??

If it has straight air (no trainline) it may not be wise to run it on any tourist service. Not sure if it would meet FRA requirements either.

Only thing I can comment on FRA easily, is that EVERYTHING has to work. One burned out bulb you don't think you need is a non-complying part.


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 Post subject: Re: GE 1941 23 Ton Switcher
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:12 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:12 pm
Posts: 75
Today was a great day. We installed the redesigned rear engine supports, and when we cranked them up, the cracks on the bell housing closed! I will still talk to Lock n Stitch to see if they can come here to close the cracks permanently.
Our last task was to turn the engine over manually from the rear of the generator, which we did. It did not turn easily, but we figure with 6 pistons and the generator rotor, it did take some doing.


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 Post subject: Re: GE 1941 23 Ton Switcher
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:57 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:12 pm
Posts: 75
Today we took a wire wheel to the paint on the cracks in the bell housing to expose them better, and e-mailed the photos to Lock n Stitch. The people at Lock n Stitch requested this to make sure there had been no welding.
They sent me a detailed form to fill out, and will get back to us with a quote.
I would like to thank the member here who recommended them


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 Post subject: Re: GE 1941 23 Ton Switcher
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:47 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:43 am
Posts: 498
You want to be sure that whatever you do, that you're keeping the rotor in line with the crankshaft. If you stress it out, that will cause ugly failures in your future


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 Post subject: Re: GE 1941 23 Ton Switcher
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:56 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:12 pm
Posts: 75
Well we got the quote from Lock n Stitck, unfortunately, it was for $25K!! As the president of our society said, it might as well have been for $25 Mil!
I cannot fault their quote, but we are going to have to come up with a much less expensive method


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 Post subject: Re: GE 1941 23 Ton Switcher
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:57 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:43 am
Posts: 498
Bowmore wrote:
Well we got the quote from Lock n Stitck, unfortunately, it was for $25K!! As the president of our society said, it might as well have been for $25 Mil!
I cannot fault their quote, but we are going to have to come up with a much less expensive method


I would highly suggest you try to find a non-cracked bell housing.... I think all the heroics to try to save yours may be mis placed


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 Post subject: Re: GE 1941 23 Ton Switcher
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:18 am 

Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:12 pm
Posts: 75
Pegasuspinto wrote:
Bowmore wrote:
Well we got the quote from Lock n Stitck, unfortunately, it was for $25K!! As the president of our society said, it might as well have been for $25 Mil!
I cannot fault their quote, but we are going to have to come up with a much less expensive method


I would highly suggest you try to find a non-cracked bell housing.... I think all the heroics to try to save yours may be misplaced

I agree. if it were possible. Unfortunately. we would have to move the entire diesel engine forward 2 feet to get the bell housing out.


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 Post subject: Re: GE 1941 23 Ton Switcher
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:51 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:15 am
Posts: 484
Bowmore wrote:
Pegasuspinto wrote:
[quote="Bowmore"I would highly suggest you try to find a non-cracked bell housing.... I think all the heroics to try to save yours may be misplaced

I agree. if it were possible. Unfortunately. we would have to move the entire diesel engine forward 2 feet to get the bell housing out.


You mean like this?
Image

Granted we have access to a small boom truck, but the same can be done with a 2 ton A frame gantry. An assembled Cummins HBI-600 is about 2200# (according to GE 25 ton manual). I say use a 2 ton because of safety factor, shifting the motor (other than along the beam) adds additional stresses when compared to static lift. If the heads were removed than there should be enough safety margin using a 1 ton gantry on a cement floor.

Be safe,
Rich C.


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 Post subject: Re: GE 1941 23 Ton Switcher
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:18 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:12 pm
Posts: 75
I would like to thank all who referred me to Multi Service Supply to help identify the air valve. According to them, it is either a SA9 or A9 valve. Apparently the are 2 air valves-this one is for the locomotive, and the other , an SA2 is for the train.


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 Post subject: Re: GE 1941 23 Ton Switcher
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:32 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:12 pm
Posts: 75
We got the bolts in on the right side of the bell housing. Drilling was harder than we anticipated, but tapping was a lot easier. The taps are brand new and sharp. Next time we are there we will do the left side.


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 Post subject: Re: GE 1941 23 Ton Switcher
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:04 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 254
Location: Orrville, OH
I've been watching this thread out of curiosty since I know nothing of GE critters. However, those cracks concern me. You have to ask yourself why the bell housing cracked. Poor maintenance procedures? Loose bolt(s)? Bad alignment? Inadequate support for the modifications causing undue stress? An unlikely bad casting? Knowing where the cracks are in relation to each other may offer a clue as to the cause. As mentioned previously, alignment and rigidity are crucial. The bell housing is no longer rigid and bolting through the crack, IMHO, isn't rigid enough. Bolts are elastic and should be sized accordingly. Not to mention that drilling and tapping removes material needed for dimensional stability. And you have to calculate if there's enough meat for the hole and bolt or it may break out when you torque the bolt. If things move around, even the tiniest amount, in ways they're not supposed to, then you'll eventually have a much bigger problem....

To be safe, I'd vote for another bell housing. I dunno, maybe I'm being an alarmist?

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 Post subject: Re: GE 1941 23 Ton Switcher
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:09 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:12 pm
Posts: 75
I appreciate your comments. We believe the cracks were caused by the fact the rear of the engine was not supported, but depended on the bell housing. Over time the strain cracked the bell housing and caused the shaft to bind.
We first jacked up the rear of the engine, and the cracks closed up. We then installed supports on the rear of the engine.
We were also able to manually turn the engine. We had previously removed the injectors to be cleaned and re calibrated, so we had no compression to work against.


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 Post subject: Re: GE 1941 23 Ton Switcher
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:05 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:00 pm
Posts: 783
Location: NJ
Having worked on many car engine/transmission combinations, I concur that the set must be balanced to perform correctly. The engines have motor mounts in the middle of the engine so it is pretty much balanced front to rear and then the transmission crossmember supports the transmission and adds stability to the entire set. This is why your transmission shop can pull the tranny without the engine falling out.

So in your case, if the engine was supported only at the front with the transmission supplying the rear support, you would experience cracking on the bellhousing since it wasn't designed for that duty. Add support ot the rear of the motor and your repair will probably be just fine.

Later!
Mr. Ed


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 Post subject: Re: GE 1941 23 Ton Switcher
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:02 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5418
Location: southeastern USA
Well at least with the parts held together in good alignment in compression you could try a welded repair now.

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 Post subject: Re: GE 1941 23 Ton Switcher
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:55 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:15 am
Posts: 484
Bowmore wrote:
I appreciate your comments. We believe the cracks were caused by the fact the rear of the engine was not supported, but depended on the bell housing. Over time the strain cracked the bell housing and caused the shaft to bind..


If this was true, then you would see this on every GE 25, 30, 44, 45 & 80 (center cab) ton switchers out there, along with most industrial stand by generators. All of them use the generator as the rear mount of the prime mover (along with your car/truck, the transmission is the rear mount of your engine). Either the housing has an inclusion (sand pocket from casting) or was damaged by previous owner. Probably reasons would have been rough handling during maintenance or uneven shimming.

I would highly recommend not even attempting to start the engine with that bolt arrangement, not enough stiffness. Even if it held for a test, you will develop a crack running from bolt to bolt in a very short time, as you have now concentrated all the weight and torque of the engine across those 4 points. Crack must be repaired or larger reinforcement must be welded/brazed onto the housing.

I hope you find a better solution. Please for you safety and the life of your critter, now you have the crack secured, pull the engine and bring the housing to a welder that can fix it properly or find a replacement.

Regards,
Rich C.

P.S. Mr Ed, on these locomotives (GE 25 ton) along with the 44 & 45 ton GE switchers, the engine mounts are at the nose of the motor and the generator body. They are not in the middle of the engine like an automotive engine. They are more like a farm tractor, where the assembly is the structure, rear of the engine has to be supported before removing the generator.


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