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 Post subject: Re: Rare bird? An outside braced CONVERTED boxcar preserved
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:36 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5432
Was fiddling around on the internet tonight and found a couple of Bob McGilvray, Jr. photos:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/n8myc/30211285940/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/n8myc/30211285850/

This car LOOKS like it might have been a wood outside braced boxcar converted with steel sides, but maybe it was built that way. Note that Bob says that the site only has Baltimore & Ohio equipment, so thinks that that might indicate that the boxcar also is of B&O heritage. The car (and other equipment) located in Cool Springs, West Virginia and apparently open to the public. Animals on premises so "close the gate!" Anyone have any info on this car? Might it actually be a third surviving wood outside braced car refitted with steel sides?

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Rare bird? An outside braced CONVERTED boxcar preserved
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:35 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
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Location: Northern Illinois
That guy should check the track gauge... It sure looks like one of the East Broad Top home built boxcars, which I believe were built as steel cars.

Image

Note the prominent end sill with poling pocket castings right on the corners.

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 Post subject: Re: Rare bird? An outside braced CONVERTED boxcar preserved
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:33 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:48 pm
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Location: St. Louis, MO
Dennis Storzek wrote:
That guy should check the track gauge... It sure looks like one of the East Broad Top home built boxcars, which I believe were built as steel cars.

Note the prominent end sill with poling pocket castings right on the corners.


This thread from a few years back identifies the boxcar as EBT.

The only standard gauge equipment there appears to be a caboose on narrow gauge trucks.


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 Post subject: Re: Rare bird? An outside braced CONVERTED boxcar preserved
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:44 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
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Dennis -

Thanks for the photo of the EBT box car.

Robbie -

Thanks for the LINK to the old RyPN thread on the Cool Springs location.


Obviously the box car is EBT and was built as a car with steel sides. So, the Frisco and A&EC cars remain as the only converted examples surviving.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Rare bird? An outside braced CONVERTED boxcar preserved
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:21 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:31 am
Posts: 366
Location: Morganton, N.C.
Quote:
...were SLSF #162739 and/or A&EC #606 also built with steel sides, rather than being converted from wood to steel?


Something that needs to be added about the A&EC car is that it was originally a Seaboard car (SAL 15409) that was damaged while on the A&EC in 1952 and subsequently acquired and rebuilt with steel sides at the line's shop (from a recent post on the ACL-SAL-SCL Modeler's List at Yahoo! Groups). The car was later used as a tool car in MofW service before going to Spencer.

While other car types were also often built with wood boxcars seem to be one type that tended to last longer with wood sides compared to, say, an open hopper. With cars like hoppers the wood siding actually reduces the cubic capacity so rebuilding with steel sheets is an advantage... boxcars not so much at times.

Now you want to talk about passenger cars... man did roads really do a number on many of them to hide the fact that they were originally wood. I even know about one that was given thermapane windows when modernized. Southern rebuilt four for use as motor car trailers which came out considerably lighter in weight than their typical coach of the time... a bit of an advantage when dealing with a low horsepower power source like the FMs had.

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 Post subject: Re: Rare bird? An outside braced CONVERTED boxcar preserved
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:39 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
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jmlaboda wrote:
Quote:
...were SLSF #162739 and/or A&EC #606 also built with steel sides, rather than being converted from wood to steel?


Something that needs to be added about the A&EC car is that it was originally a Seaboard car (SAL 15409) that was damaged while on the A&EC in 1952 and subsequently acquired and rebuilt with steel sides at the line's shop (from a recent post on the ACL-SAL-SCL Modeler's List at Yahoo! Groups).



Jim -

Thanks for the info about A&EC #606 originally being Seaboard Air Line Railroad box car #15409. I don't have access to the ACL-SAL-SCL Modeler List, so can you tell me if SAL #15409 was a wood sided car? I'm assuming it was, but a confirmation would be nice. Also, might there be a photo of SAL #15409 (or a sister car from that same series ) out there someplace? Would be nice to see what A&EC #606 looked like before the A&EC rebuilt her.

Again, thanks for this info. Much appreciated.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Rare bird? An outside braced CONVERTED boxcar preserved
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:43 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:31 am
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Location: Morganton, N.C.
Quote:
...so can you tell me if SAL #15409 was a wood sided car?


Yes it was. Up until rebuilt after the wreck.

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 Post subject: Re: Rare bird? An outside braced CONVERTED boxcar preserved
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:52 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
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Jerry -

Thanks. And my apologies for addressing you as Jim. ANOTHER senior moment!

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Rare bird? An outside braced CONVERTED boxcar preserved
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:03 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:07 pm
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A year or two (or three) ago, the Dennison Railroad Depot Museum scrapped a PRR X23 boxcar for reasons unknown to me.

I believe the outside braced PRR boxcar at White Deer, PA is actually an X26. They also have a round roof steel PRR boxcar, which I believe is an X31.

Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Rare bird? An outside braced CONVERTED boxcar preserved
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:37 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
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Tom -

Thanks. As stated earlier, the PRR X23 cars don't fit into this thread because they all remained as wood sided cars. Also, the X31 class were built as steel sided cars. Some Pennsylvania Railroad X26 outside braced wood sided cars WERE rebuilt with steel sides I guess, but in those rebuilds, I believe that they no longer had the exposed outside bracing. If the X26 class car at White Deer is now steel sided and DOES have the outside bracing, then it would qualify for inclusion in this thread. I tried to find a photo of the car on the internet, but had absolutely no luck.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Rare bird? An outside braced CONVERTED boxcar preserved
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:54 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
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Another possibility? Found a photo on line of former Frisco 2-6-0 #73 privately owned and on display in Victoria, Arkansas. Back in the "freight train" behind her tender, was an outside braced boxcar. After much searching, best I could do was come up with this additional photo:

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/11444861.jpg

The boxcar could just be another wood sided car, but the "horizontal line" up at the top of the car is kind of similar to SLSF 162739, which started off this thread. The car is at a spot that apparently is open to the public. Wonder if someone might have taken a better shot of the boxcar to see if it might actually be a third surviving converted-to-steel outside braced car.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Rare bird? An outside braced CONVERTED boxcar preserved
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:16 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
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No response on the boxcar at Victoria, Arkansas. Not surprising, but still have hope to get some info on that car. What's amazing is that I have found another possibility! And a REAL surprise! This one may not even be formally preserved, but it exists, or at least DID in 2014. Here's the photo:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=3815294

The railroad is the Roscoe, Snyder & Pacific. The 50' outside braced car converted from wood to steel sides, was originally built in August of 1929. The RS&P was a 30 mile short line, so a vintage car still in existence, is surprising. Not sure if this one is sitting on trucks or not. Hard to tell for sure from the photo, but my guess is that it isn't. Not sure what the story of the car is, but if it still survives today, it might qualify as a third CONVERTED o.b. boxcar. The jury is out; what do you think?

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Rare bird? An outside braced CONVERTED boxcar preserved
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:59 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
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Concerning the RS&P converted-to-steel 50' boxcar, here is a photo of a Texas & Pacific 50 footer:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=4266017

My guess is that the RS&P car is a former T&P car from the same series as T&P #74056. IF that car still exists, seems it would be a good "fit" for a Texas outfit such as TSR in Rusk or MotAR in Frisco.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Rare bird? An outside braced CONVERTED boxcar preserved
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:02 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
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Before we move on from this thread, I thought I would post one other photo I happened to discover:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=3553769

This shot is now coming up on 5 years old and my guess is that this possible converted-to-steel outside braced boxcar is long gone. The car is lettered SP MW2417 and, along with another "standard" 40' boxcar (SP #101157), was sitting on a weed grown siding, the two cars probably once used for storage. Although this old girl had somehow acquired a set of roller bearing trucks, I am not sure that its location back in June of 2013 (Schellville, California) was even served by an active rail line at that point in time. The accompanying photos all refer to the Northwestern Pacific, an old Southern Pacific subsidiary which fell on hard times. Did (does?) the later day NWP exist? I looked on the internet for any more recent photos of Schellville, but found nothing. So, this is almost certainly a case of "what might have been another CONVERTED o.b. example" at best.

Thanks for reading along.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Rare bird? An outside braced CONVERTED boxcar preserved
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:11 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:31 am
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Location: Morganton, N.C.
NWP? Its still around.

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