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 Post subject: Southern Pacific business car #127, ALAMO
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:30 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:59 am
Posts: 41
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Greeting all,

It's been one heck of a time, but we've finally moved the SP 127, ALAMO to Elmendorf, TX! Let me start by saying, Mr. Jim Lesiak of Over The Top Construction is a super guy and definitely knows his stuff when it comes to moving a passenger rail car. We are very impressed by his knowledge and resourcefulness. If you ever need a car moved, call his company!
This would have been a normal move had the environment where the car was residing and the weather cooperated, but that was not the case. The ground was soggy and anytime serious work was being started, it would rain cats and dogs, loading the already saturated ground with even more water. Undortunately, that's just Houston, TX weather. To top things off, the ALAMO had several surprises in store for us as well. As many of us SP fans know, the SP liked to modify/customize and improve things with their equipment. The ALAMO was no exception. Cushion draft gear from a boxcar was installed on the "A" end of the ALAMO. The modified draft gear sat much lower than the previous pocket had, creating an issue when hauling the car.
The other major issue was the lack of jacking pads. Now as for me personally, I've not really paid much attention to the "jacking points" on passenger equipment, so I couldn't tell you, but after having three different people make the same observation, I think it odd. So without these "jacking points", the lifting of the car became a real challenge. We tried a crane, but the company we used must have sent us the most unprofessional operator and rigger they had in their employment. Because of this, the crane operator did not see his boom was off and because of it, once the weight was great enough, the car righted itself. By righting itself I mean the car swung in toward the crane, striking his outrigger. Needless to say, I nearly messed my pants. I was standing beside the car, holdinging an air hose and the car moved toward me. Yeah, I learned exactly how fast I can move! Anyway, needless to say, we were done with the crane company at that point. So we shifted gears and decided to use car jacks and cribbing to lift the ALAMO off its trucks. To assist with this task, the Texas State Railroad gratiously allowed us the use of two 50-ton car jacks. Between those two and the two Jim had with him, we lifted up and cribbed the ALAMO. Once the car was up high enough, the trucks were removed, and the dollies were slid under. This is where the cushion draft gear became an issue. Jim had to change things up on his dollies to allow the ALAMO to ride safely.
Once all the preparations were done, on the morning of February 7th, the ALAMO finally moved out of her home of 32 years and began her journey to her new home in Southeast Bexar county.

So as of today, the ALAMO is sitting behind our museum in Elmendorf, waiting for the cranes to arrive this week and place her on her new display(restoration) track. Our group of insanely dedicated volunteers are itching to get started on the restoration. We've already been looking into what will be needed to get the ALAMO back up to operational status. We need to get a car floor plan for the ALAMO. The that came with a car is a diagram for the steam heating system. In addition, we've got a service manual for the Waukesha generator, in excellent condition.

So I've got several questions for y'all.

1.) Can anyone tell me where I can get the floor plans for the car?

2.) Would it be good to upgrade to a new generator or reuse the Waukesha?

3.) Is there a place where we can get replica light fixtures made?
(Out of all the light fixtures in the car, only three were stolen before the car was sold into private ownership)

4.) Is there a place where we can get replica China for the car?
(All the China from the car was stolen from the car. Same time as the light fixtures.)


We are so excited to be restoring this beautiful piece of railroad history. The ALAMO is a prime example of passenger railcar beauty. The car is, dare I say, 99.8% complete!!! It's has also presented our organization a treasure trove of historic SP paper goods, maps, and other stationary. We couldn't be more fortunate in receiving the ALAMO as part of our collection!


Gary Rodriguez
President
San Antonio Railroad Heritage Museum


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 Post subject: Re: Southern Pacific business car #127, ALAMO
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:18 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 329
Location: Danbury, CT
You wouldn’t happen to know anything about two heavyweight business cars sitting in UP’s San Antonio East Yard, would you?

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 Post subject: Re: Southern Pacific business car #127, ALAMO
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:27 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:59 am
Posts: 41
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Yes I do. One is the SSW Dixie, owned by the Tyler RR Museum. The other is a old business car from an unknown RR. The guys from Tyler are looking to move their car to Tyler soon and we've been working on the other car as another potential acquisition.

Gary Rodriguez
President
San Antonio Railroad Heritage Museum


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 Post subject: Re: Southern Pacific business car #127, ALAMO
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:59 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 1531
Location: Southern California
In response to the inquiry about floor plans, etc.

The car is covered in the Southern Pacific Historical & Technical Society book Southern Pacific Official Cars pages 374-378. This includes both a reproduction of a T&NO diagram of the car credited to the SPH&TS and a reproduction of the Pullman Co. original floor plan credited to the Illinois Railway Museum, Pullman Library.

The car was built on Pullman Lot (order) No. 7092. You will need to quote this number when contacting the Illinois Railway Museum, Pullman Library regarding obtaining copies of the floor plan and any other construction plans. There will be a charge. This collection generally includes the construction specifications and this document will contain the individual drawing numbers; a copy of this document would be a good start.

Ted Anderson, the volunteer curator, occasionally posts on "Interchange" and he has stated the best contact is using the email address (that is found on the linked page).

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 Post subject: Re: Southern Pacific business car #127, ALAMO
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:02 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:44 pm
Posts: 15
Photos, please. But, then, I'd like any and all posts about a business car to include a photo.


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 Post subject: Re: Southern Pacific business car #127, ALAMO
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:59 am 

Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:56 pm
Posts: 26
The "Mallard Transportation" car coupled to the SSW Dixie in San Antonio is ex MKT 402.


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 Post subject: Re: Southern Pacific business car #127, ALAMO
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:23 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:59 am
Posts: 41
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Here are a couple photos of the SP 127, ALAMO, as it currently sits.


Attachments:
File comment: Rear shot of the ALAMO sitting on the bogies in Elmendorf, TX.
IMG_9119.JPG
IMG_9119.JPG [ 145.92 KiB | Viewed 1193 times ]
File comment: This is the ALAMO right now. It will be placed on the track in a few days.
IMG_9118.JPG
IMG_9118.JPG [ 195.14 KiB | Viewed 1193 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Southern Pacific business car #127, ALAMO
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:53 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:44 pm
Posts: 15
thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Southern Pacific business car #127, ALAMO
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:01 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 329
Location: Danbury, CT
garyrsatx wrote:
Yes I do. One is the SSW Dixie, owned by the Tyler RR Museum. The other is a old business car from an unknown RR. The guys from Tyler are looking to move their car to Tyler soon and we've been working on the other car as another potential acquisition.

Gary Rodriguez
President
San Antonio Railroad Heritage Museum



The “unknown” is a former KCS business car. It’s history is listed below and is the car I’m looking for info on. Anyone have the current owner’s info? Thanks.

Pullman Standard Business Car #101, originally- MKT #402. Reportedly sold to a private owner in Tulsa, circa 1968. Painted and re-lettered for Mallard Transportation "RPCX 101". Moved to Fayetteville, Arkansas for restoration in 2004. Located in Union Pacific’s East Yard in San Antonio, TX.

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 Post subject: Re: Southern Pacific business car #127, ALAMO
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:17 pm 

Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 9:19 pm
Posts: 40
Brian Norden wrote:
In response to the inquiry about floor plans, etc.

The car was built on Pullman Lot (order) No. 7092. You will need to quote this number when contacting the Illinois Railway Museum, Pullman Library regarding obtaining copies of the floor plan and any other construction plans. There will be a charge. This collection generally includes the construction specifications and this document will contain the individual drawing numbers; a copy of this document would be a good start.

Ted Anderson, the volunteer curator, occasionally posts on "Interchange" and he has stated the best contact is using the email address (that is found on the linked page).


The car was built to Lot 4947 and to PLAN 7092. You'd cause a lot of confusion to the poor people working at the Library should you say Lot 7092. I'm not sure why Jeff & co. didn't get the Specification & Drawing List. The two do not always go together, in this case, being a relatively late construction, the likely do.

The Specification also (sometimes) includes information from the Color & Design Department, which is information about the interior and exterior decor. The Specification & Drawing List will typically include the original furniture and the floor coverings, observation rail, etc.

Ted retired as curator on 12/27. It's my turn in the barrel (anyone remembering that old joke should also get an idea of some of the issues facing the Library). The best method for reaching us is to use both the Library's E-mail and mine - anyone desiring same can PM me (simply because we get enough spam as it is, bots trolling can find entries on this forum rather easily - and so, the e-mail addresses end up in spam generator's hands).


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 Post subject: Re: Southern Pacific business car #127, ALAMO
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:37 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:29 pm
Posts: 326
You guys should also order the "descriptive list" for that car. It is a long document but it will explain much about the car "as ordered" from Pullman. It can really be helpful when planning the restoration. The Pullman floor plans are also very useful...they contain notes that are often hints about how the car was built. Don't fret about paying for the materials...the money is used to fund the library.

Also...job one should be stopping the roof leaks (which I assume you have...even if they are not obvious) and the leaks around the windows. New window gaskets will be in order...and that process will be a real eye-opener. Don't do anything else until the leaks have been stopped or all your work will have been in vain.

There's a lot to learn. Good luck.

T7


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 Post subject: Re: Southern Pacific business car #127, ALAMO
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:44 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 1531
Location: Southern California
rswebber,

Thank you for correcting me and I'm sorry for any confusion I may cause. I copied the wrong data for the SPH&TS book.

Thank you for the staff update. I hope Ted can enjoy his time away from serving as curator. And I wish you well with the ongoing activities.

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 Post subject: Re: Southern Pacific business car #127, ALAMO
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:28 pm 

Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 9:19 pm
Posts: 40
[quote="Brian Norden"]rswebber,

I will have to look at the signature block, I thought I had included my name, obviously not!

Ted still comes in about every other week or so - I told him last week that he looked 100% better than he had in December. All I have talked to have said they hoped he'd be able to relax and get some rest, as, to a person, they said he had begun to look "worn". I can certainly understand that! Stupid stuff happens, and in some jobs, it piles up to a tipping point. I am extremely glad Ted comes in, as he has retained a lot of information and nuances that escape me (though he berates himself for forgetting things - I keep telling him that those things (forgotten) aren't important, to focus on the things he feels are important.

The Lot / Plan juxtaposition is not uncommon. I think it's because far too many publications focus more on the Plan than the Lot - while Pullman tended to focus on Lots. Actually, the two together are critical information, as all B sized drawings (ceiling plans, floor plans, elevations, floor covering, pipes, heating, conduit, etc.) are organized by Plan, never drawing number, but all drawings are indexed via the Lot's Drawing List (at least after 1912-17) or via the Drawing size index books.

7092 is an interesting number - were it a Lot it would be the mystery Lot, as it is one number past the Lot Lists' last Lot number - hence the confusion.


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 Post subject: Re: Southern Pacific business car #127, ALAMO
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:31 pm 

Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 9:19 pm
Posts: 40
Was there an earlier number for the car? The Lot lists indicate a 401 for M-K-T - but not a 402. There are earlier 2 digit numbers for BCs. The Pullman Private Car List also does not list it - so any information as to origin beyond the number 402 would be helpful - thanks!

Pullman Standard Business Car #101, originally- MKT #402. Reportedly sold to a private owner in Tulsa, circa 1968. Painted and re-lettered for Mallard Transportation "RPCX 101". Moved to Fayetteville, Arkansas for restoration in 2004. Located in Union Pacific’s East Yard in San Antonio, TX.[/quote]


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 Post subject: Re: Southern Pacific business car #127, ALAMO
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:42 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 329
Location: Danbury, CT
rswebber wrote:
Was there an earlier number for the car? The Lot lists indicate a 401 for M-K-T - but not a 402. There are earlier 2 digit numbers for BCs. The Pullman Private Car List also does not list it - so any information as to origin beyond the number 402 would be helpful - thanks!

Pullman Standard Business Car #101, originally- MKT #402. Reportedly sold to a private owner in Tulsa, circa 1968. Painted and re-lettered for Mallard Transportation "RPCX 101". Moved to Fayetteville, Arkansas for restoration in 2004. Located in Union Pacific’s East Yard in San Antonio, TX.
[/quote]

I don’t have any earlier info on the car. KCS had it listed as the former MKT 402.

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