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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:02 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:07 pm
Posts: 1019
Location: Leicester, MA.
msrlha_archivist wrote:
So, the target just went up to $65,000?

I think that might be Gofundme's system doing that... I've seen a few that hit their goal, and the goal total gets increased automatically. There's less than $1000 to go, so I'm not terribly surprised...

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:04 pm 

Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:30 pm
Posts: 645
Location: Bucks County, PA
msrlha_archivist wrote:
So, the target just went up to $65,000?


Yeah, apparently the $55K number was wrong (it's higher) - an official update should be coming shortly.

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:08 pm 

Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:30 pm
Posts: 645
Location: Bucks County, PA
bigjim4life wrote:
msrlha_archivist wrote:
So, the target just went up to $65,000?


Yeah, apparently the $55K number was wrong (it's higher) - an official update should be coming shortly.


Official update from the GoFundMe page:

"The final sale price of the locomotive has come in at $35,000. The original discussed price with the owner was for nominally $35,000. Upon him receiving a final and current quote for the value of the weight of the locomotive and tender , the price increased."

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:10 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:06 pm
Posts: 2218
Location: Thomaston & White Plains
Simply put: Keep giving. More money is always needed.

And you can pretty much count on the scrap man to "shake down" the guys on site who are actually doing this. Scrap Man has no ethics, and cares not about "foamer boycotts", or "looking bad in the media". Just the cash he can extract from this.

So, don't stop giving to this. Any deal that will finally be cut will be the best deal possible, commensurate with saving the engine and getting out of Port Arthur and the clutches of Dastardly Scrap Man.

I'd think anything raised will go to the engine, in one form or another. What rail project doesn't need additional funding?

Send money.

Howard P.

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:15 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:33 pm
Posts: 14
A verbal contract is a contract?


Last edited by msrlha_archivist on Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:17 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:03 pm
Posts: 139
Location: Pennsylvania
The deadline has been extended.


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:18 pm 

Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 1:12 am
Posts: 77
That (pardon my language) ticks me off. The owner said he didn't want to see it scrapped then raises the price knowing how fast everyone scrambled to try and save this steamer. Everyone is trying to save it and they pull this?

Makes me think they don't give 2 you know what about seeing this engine saved. I hope the remaining balance can be raised.


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:22 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 359
This has been great the way Mr. Sobczynski and Mr. Hovey parachuted into a very delicate situation and made a go of it. And to watch the online support they have been able to garner has been tremendous. Unfortunately, it looks to me that the scrap man is acting in a disadvantageous manner for everyone involved, including himself. My understanding from all the articles, podcasts, and postings, is that the whole matter was handled administratively by Port Arthur, and without any public input or vote by the council, because the value of the contract was less than $25K. It seems to me that, if the remediation contractor is paid by Port Arthur $24K in cash and is conveyed the title to the locomotive, the value of which the remediation contractor has now himself established at $35K, the remediation contractor's total compensation by the government of Port Arthur is $59K, and so the value of the contract exceeds the $25K threshold. "Luuuuceeee, you got some 'splainin' to do".


Last edited by Scranton Yard on Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:30 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:35 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:34 am
Posts: 375
I had a long talk with Jason last night regarding this project. The change in price is a reflection of how you classify the scrap. Originally, the value of "scrap metal" was used instead of the price of #1 Heavy Melting Scrap which is more realistic for a steam locomotive. Using the current market value for the heavy melting scrap, you get a price in the range of $35K. Per my most recent discussion with Jason, this is now a firm, fixed price.

I'm also kind of curious about how the Port Arthur folks are going to explain how they allowed this contractor to make money off of city property.

G. Mark

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:35 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:06 pm
Posts: 2218
Location: Thomaston & White Plains
Yes, Scrap Man is a profiteer. As I learned long ago, "How much justice can you afford?"

Legal fees will eat up $50,000 quite fast. Scrap Man has until March 3 to get job done, which includes "removing" locomotive and remediating the ground.

Like it or not, if 503 is to be saved, the additional $15,000 ransom has to be paid. What he's pulled is not ethical, but it's certainly legal.

Send money.

Howard P.

PS
I'm reminded of the old Warren Zevon song: "Send Lawyers, Guns, and Money"....

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:37 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1702
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
IMHO moving the goal posts just as the campaign reached what had been stated was the victory line is a VERY serious negative development. Jason should have had the purchase price in writing BEFORE he solicited the publics support.

I think there's an excellent chance that this will throw a cold wet blanket on this effort as folks will not have faith that the new goal line is trust worthy either.

I sure hope Jason keeps his word and returns the donations should the effort fall short.

Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:40 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 499
From the original text on the gofundme page: "The locomotive is currently the property of the environmental remediation company contracted to conduct the demolition. The owner of the company does not desire to see the locomotive cut up anymore than those preservationists among us, but he is bound by the terms of the city contract and the associated timeline."

If the owner of the environmental remediation company REALLY doesn't want to see it scrapped he should stop trying to wring every cent out of it. The number that should matter is what he wanted from the city to do the remediation. The first number I saw said that $17,000 was needed in addition to what the city paid in cash. Now he is holding it hostage?


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:45 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 359
So, if the threshold was indeed exceeded, then the whole transaction between Port Arthur and the remediation contractor could face legal scrutiny and the title the remediation contractor holds to the locomotive could come into question. Reading the comments on the funding page and in the Port Arthur News articles, not all the locals are happy with the way this was handled and so they may be inclined to call the transaction into question. My recommendation would be to extend the panel track, move the locomotive, secure the locomotive, and complete the remediation of the ground under where the locomotive originally was located such that the environmental people are all happy and the locomotive is no longer in immediate danger. Then sort out the title to the locomotive. I greatly admire all the hard work on the ground in Port Arthur, but the last thing anyone needs is another steam engine with a murky title.


Last edited by Scranton Yard on Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:46 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:46 pm
Posts: 1942
Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
You can argue this all you want and give thoughts about the legality of it, but in the end, a pile of torched up metal that used to be a locomotive will never again become a complete locomotive, regardless of how irritated anyone is about it's condition...
Threatening with legal action only has merit if you can get an injunction filed in time.
msrlha_archivist wrote:
A verbal contract is a contract.

Yeah? Ask a lawyer about that sometime...

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:53 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8692
Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
1) Yes, re-setting fundraising goals upwards like this in the "home stretch" is almost considered "standard" in such campaigns as Kickstarter and GoFundMe. Often this is done with additional perks and inducements, such as more pages for an art book, promises of perks like souvenirs, etc.

2) The shift upwards in price is probably something that the two saviors should have anticipated, although I have no idea how much leeway they have for negotiation, like showing a documented lower value figure. I can't realistically see that thing being $35K worth of metal.

3) as I suggested before, this entire situation smells--this scrapper, one way or another, is making out like a bandit financially, at both the city's and would-be preservationists' expense. The proper place for this dispute/racket to be aired, in this case, is not the courtroom, but public opinion--expose the scrapper's profiteering and the city's fiduciary negligence in the news media, if possible.

But wait until the loco is out of town first.


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