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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:56 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 395
msrlha_archivist wrote:
A verbal contract is a contract.


Some recommended reading:

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/BC/htm/BC.26.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:58 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:51 pm
Posts: 92
Since the fundraiser is a public page, I suspect that the scrapper is following it and salivating. Rather than call a lawyer, I'd get hold of a local TV station that's been following this situation and give them an update. It's amazing what the local I-Team can accomplish with a few phone calls or an ambush interview or two. No politician or business wants that kind of publicity.

/Kevin


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:05 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:34 pm
Posts: 235
KevinM wrote:
Since the fundraiser is a public page, I suspect that the scrapper is following it and salivating. Rather than call a lawyer, I'd get hold of a local TV station that's been following this situation and give them an update. It's amazing what the local I-Team can accomplish with a few phone calls or an ambush interview or two. No politician or business wants that kind of publicity.

/Kevin

I think I'll be making such a call very shortly if I have to hear anymore of this. No one gets away with my donation money especially if it's for a good cause. The contractor should be ashamed of himself for thinking only about his ego.


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:09 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 395
Nobody's threatening a lawsuit, as far as I can tell. I did note an appreciable amount of push back by some of the local Port Arthur folks in the comments sections of the news articles and even on the funding page. There could be a perception in the Port Arthur community that someone in Port Arthur government, "done did (you know what) upped, AAron" and it is possible that local resentment could gain some steam and cause a long delay in Port Arthur's payment to the remediation contractor (including the transfer of the title) or, worse for all involved, open the whole transaction to lengthy administrative scrutiny. I have to imagine that neither the contractor nor the Port Arthur government wants that. Of course, if the loco was only worth $999 then the $25K threshold will have been met.


Last edited by Scranton Yard on Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:09 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:52 am
Posts: 29
Here is the website of the company that apparently increased the price.

Disclaimer: Please use this for informational purposes only. Don't do anything stupid that could hamper the effort to preserve the locomotive.

http://inlandenvironmental.net/contact-us/


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:17 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 591
The city needs to reclaim the steamer. Pay the remediation company a fair price, cash, for cleaning up the asbestos etc., and then give up the loco to the preservationists and get some of your costs recovered from the gofundme money. This situation where the remediation company essentially gets to decide how much they are paid for their work is ludicrous.


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:19 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:10 pm
Posts: 131
Quit worrying about what was said, what the law is etc. If everyone who donated would donate just $15 apiece more that would put it over the top. I for one can skip a meal at a restaurant .
Mike n.

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:29 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:43 am
Posts: 552
I just spoke with the scrap buyer of a VERY BIG 'top tier' recycler. #1 scrap price is 7 cents a pound hauled into their facility. If you hauled in a quarter million pounds cut, he might go to 10 cents. If HE cuts it up and hauls it (assuming its fairly local) it's back to 7 cents.

I'm in central AR, I know mileage counts in price, but I'm not 'too' far from PA

35,000 / 0.07 is 500,000 pounds................


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:57 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:07 pm
Posts: 1038
Location: Leicester, MA.
So just picking this up off of the Facebook page that a lot of the info has been posted to, I come away with three points;

1) Yes, the price is now solid at $35k
2) They go to sign the purchase agreement tomorrow morning
3) They have one more week to raise the remaining funds. That gives them until the 28th to raise the rest of the money they'll need.

Where the site needs to be squared away by March 6th, I'd call this a good thing... They're getting it down on paper that the price is solid, so no more trickery (if that is indeed the case) on the price... And they get another week to get funds raised. That seems like Inland is being rather flexible. What's stopping them from saying have it out in 24 hours or no deal?

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:02 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 395
Pegasuspinto wrote:
I just spoke with the scrap buyer of a VERY BIG 'top tier' recycler. #1 scrap price is 7 cents a pound hauled into their facility. If you hauled in a quarter million pounds cut, he might go to 10 cents. If HE cuts it up and hauls it (assuming its fairly local) it's back to 7 cents.

I'm in central AR, I know mileage counts in price, but I'm not 'too' far from PA

35,000 / 0.07 is 500,000 pounds................


steamlocomotive.info lists 503 at 184,000 lbs empty:

http://www.steamlocomotive.info/vlocomotive.cfm?Display=1186

At $0.07 per that is $12,880. So is the scrap price Pegususpinto quotes way off or is the listed Empty Weight incorrect on the low side?


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:32 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:27 am
Posts: 492
Location: Winters, TX
It looks like Port Arthur is in for a few days of wet weather. Will that affect any of the plans?


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:51 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:21 pm
Posts: 423
Location: Columbus, OH
Weight of the 500 class is 194,000 lbs according to http://www.steamlocomotive.com/locobase.php?country=USA&wheel=4-6-0&railroad=la. So say 97 tons (assuming short tons).

According to http://www.scrappricebulletin.com/No-1-hvy-melting, Feb 2018 market price for Scrap Heavy Melt (unprep) is $225 per gross ton. Again assuming short tons.

Multiply it out and you get $21,825.

Based on this information (if accurate, I'm no expert in scrap) $35,000 seems high considering there will be cost to dismantle and transport the metal. Also, I assume an environmental company is not going to get market price as the scrap dealer will need a markup. Am I missing something?

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:58 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:53 pm
Posts: 197
Location: Manchester, NH
Jason has posted a video explanation as to what happened on Facebook. Perfectly understandable given the circumstance. Let's not forget that all of this occured over a long holiday weekend where many businesses are closed.
https://www.facebook.com/319972281379363/videos/1722686031107974

$52,976 raised...

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:25 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:21 pm
Posts: 423
Location: Columbus, OH
ebtrr wrote:
Weight of the 500 class is 194,000 lbs according to http://www.steamlocomotive.com/locobase.php?country=USA&wheel=4-6-0&railroad=la. So say 97 tons (assuming short tons).

According to http://www.scrappricebulletin.com/No-1-hvy-melting, Feb 2018 market price for Scrap Heavy Melt (unprep) is $225 per gross ton. Again assuming short tons.

Multiply it out and you get $21,825.

Based on this information (if accurate, I'm no expert in scrap) $35,000 seems high considering there will be cost to dismantle and transport the metal. Also, I assume an environmental company is not going to get market price as the scrap dealer will need a markup. Am I missing something?


I see where I went wrong here. 194,000 lbs or 97 tons is for the engine only and did not include the tender weight. Tender is 143,300 lbs or 71.5 tons loaded but cannot find an empty weight. Holds 7,000 gallons of water which is 58,417 lbs or 29.2 tons, plus 14 tons of fuel gives 43.2 tons. That leaves 28.3 tons for the unloaded tender or 125.3 tons for engine plus empty tender. At what the new video says at $265 per ton comes out to $33204.50.

So that works out pretty close cost wise, but the scrapper is still not allowing for his costs for dismantling and transportation. Also the scrapper claims to be getting a price well over market value.

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http://www.spikesys.com/EBT East Broad Top Homepage
http://www.febt.org Friends of the East Broad Top
http://www.ebtrr.com East Broad Top Railroad


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:43 pm 
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https://www.facebook.com/31997228137936 ... 6031107974

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