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 Post subject: Re: The strange saga of C&O 1309 restoration just got strang
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:29 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:50 pm
Posts: 12
co614 wrote:
A critically important issue here is that for whatever reason(s) Kevin Rice ( CMO-Steam) and the entire steam qualified staff have been let go or have quit. Even if they somehow find the needed $600,000.00 they say will finish the job ( very unlikely unless the state comes up with it IMHO) whose going to do the work and sign off for it on the Federal forms??

IMHO-Ross Rowland


Ross - So who is in charge if all these people have been let go/quit?

MJM


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 Post subject: Re: The strange saga of C&O 1309 restoration just got strang
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:35 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1745
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
A Mr. John Garner is the COO and he has a BOD he reports to. Mr. Kevin Rice the former CMO-Steam left some months ago and he was the last steam qualified man in the shop.

It would appear that the chances of 1309 getting finished any time soon are very poor.

IMHO-Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: The strange saga of C&O 1309 restoration just got strang
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:17 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:50 pm
Posts: 12
co614 wrote:
A Mr. John Garner is the COO and he has a BOD he reports to. Mr. Kevin Rice the former CMO-Steam left some months ago and he was the last steam qualified man in the shop.

It would appear that the chances of 1309 getting finished any time soon are very poor.

IMHO-Ross Rowland


Ross - Thanks for your quick response. May I ask a potentially loaded question? If Governor Hogan called you tomorrow and asked what you would do to fix the WMSR, what would you tell him (if you decide to take the 5th, I will understand)?

MJM


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 Post subject: Re: The strange saga of C&O 1309 restoration just got strang
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:42 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1745
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
I'd tell him that the solution is very straight forward. Step one is the have the current mgt. put out an RFP to the 5 mainline steam restoration companies who have proven track records of successful restorations. The RFP will ask for a Program,Plan & Schedule ( with a not to exceed total budget number ) and an estimated timeline.

While waiting for responses to the RFP the WMSR will be tasked with firing the current GM and hiring a new GM asap.

The RFP responses will be reviewed by an appointee of the Governor, the WMSR and a contractor selected.

The State will then commit the funds needed to cover the Not To Exceed cost number in the winning RFP, have the WMSR sign a contract for the work and then STAY COMPLETELY OUT OF THE WAY.

My best semi educated guess is that it will take 9-12 months and around $ 750k to get her under steam and another 2-3 months and $ 100-150k to run the bugs out of her.

That's what I'd tell him. Thanks for asking, Ross


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 Post subject: Re: The strange saga of C&O 1309 restoration just got strang
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:30 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:36 pm
Posts: 197
bigjim4life wrote:
I'm just curious - using publicly available information (that anyone with a computer can legally pull up) - why would you hire and keep employed someone with this many court records on file?



That many court records? That's not a lot really and that view does not say what they are. Anyone who has gone through a messy divorce with a house foreclosure and custody battle over the children will have that many records. Get laid off and start living off of credit cards witch then default will do it too.

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 Post subject: Re: The strange saga of C&O 1309 restoration just got strang
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:42 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:25 pm
Posts: 1881
Quote:
I'd tell him that the solution is very straight forward. Step one is the have the current mgt. put out an RFP to the 5 mainline steam restoration companies who have proven track records of successful restorations. The RFP will ask for a Program,Plan & Schedule ( with a not to exceed total budget number ) and an estimated timeline.


The state "Bond Bill" funding process will take care of due process for oversight of any contract using state appropriated funds.

Meanwhile WMSR must compete in the legislature with other earmark requests from the Cumberland region. Usually the leadership in the general assembly and the governor take their cues from the local senators and delegates.

This Bond Bill process is the same process that held up funding earlier in the project and shut the job down for a while while the paperwork is processed.

I wish them luck.

Wesley


Last edited by wesp on Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The strange saga of C&O 1309 restoration just got strang
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:57 am 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:54 am
Posts: 792
Location: Tucson, Arizona
sousakerry wrote:
bigjim4life wrote:
I'm just curious - using publicly available information (that anyone with a computer can legally pull up) - why would you hire and keep employed someone with this many court records on file?



That many court records? That's not a lot really and that view does not say what they are. Anyone who has gone through a messy divorce with a house foreclosure and custody battle over the children will have that many records. Get laid off and start living off of credit cards witch then default will do it too.


State employment law also comes in to play here. In some states, state law establishes what court records (particularly criminal convictions) may be used by an employer to determine employment eligibility. In Utah, misdemeanor criminal convictions where the value of the property stolen is under $500.00 may be sealed if the defendant does not get any additional convictions for ten years and petitions the sentencing court to seal the record. Once the record is sealed, any employer who uses the sealed record to determine employment eligibility is guilty of a criminal offense and subject to criminal prosecution. Sealed convictions are not generally required to be reported on employment applications and will not appear on most employment based criminal records checks.

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 Post subject: Re: The strange saga of C&O 1309 restoration just got strang
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:42 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 392
Location: Orrville, OH
sousakerry wrote:
bigjim4life wrote:
I'm just curious - using publicly available information (that anyone with a computer can legally pull up) - why would you hire and keep employed someone with this many court records on file?



That many court records? That's not a lot really and that view does not say what they are. Anyone who has gone through a messy divorce with a house foreclosure and custody battle over the children will have that many records. Get laid off and start living off of credit cards witch then default will do it too.

It's not the quantity of records as much as Mr. Nixon seems to enjoy a fair amount of burglary, theft, and forgery in his leisure time activities. That would have given me pause in hiring him where accessible, valuable and easily sold tools and materials were kept.

On the court website, click on the case numbers for more info.

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 Post subject: Re: The strange saga of C&O 1309 restoration just got strang
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:48 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:31 pm
Posts: 267
From the Cumberland (MD) Times-News this morning....

Scenic railroad's operations a concern, Shade says

CUMBERLAND — After Western Maryland Scenic Railroad officials requested an increase in funding on Thursday during Allegany County’s budget hearings, commission president Jake Shade said he is concerned with how the organization is operating.

“I have serious concerns about how this is being funded and operated,” Shade said, “and from top to bottom.”

The $200,000 of county funding being requested, an increase of $60,000 over last year, will go in part to maintenance costs associated with replacing railroad ties, WMSR officials said.

“The average price is $32 for a tie delivered,” WMSR Executive Director John Garner said, “and we need roughly 2,880 ties per mile.”

More than the funding increase, Shade expressed frustration over the scenic railroad’s fiscal 2017 budget.

“I haven’t seen this financial report until today,” he said as he reviewed the document.

“In terms of cash assets, it looks like the liabilities, current liabilities, are double what you have in cash.”

According to the budget, WMSR’s total liabilities come in at $1,342,905.84, with $1,216,953.05 in net assets.

Another concern for Shade is the organization’s revenue versus liabilities.

The WMSR recorded $3,202,757.36 in revenue in fiscal 2017, which includes more than $1 million in state funding for the restoration of steam locomotive No. 1309.

“We’ve already put well over a million dollars into the 1309, the state I mean,” Shade said.

“When you have total revenue coming in — it looks like last year over $3 million — of state and local money and your ridership,” he said. “I think when people find out you all brought in about $1.8 million on your own without any government involvement, that’s pretty impressive, but to have all these liabilities ...”

“At some point, I don’t know what to tell people when they ask us, ‘What’s going on at the railroad? How are the taxpayers getting the best deal they can?”


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 Post subject: Re: The strange saga of C&O 1309 restoration just got strang
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:35 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
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A mile of mainline track has between 2,900 and 3,100 ties.

If they are going to replace 2,880 per mile that is nearly every tie.


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 Post subject: Re: The strange saga of C&O 1309 restoration just got strang
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:51 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
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Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
It must be a misquote or misunderstanding because of course the $60,000 increase would only buy 2,000 ties.

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Danmarks Tekniske Universitet
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 Post subject: Re: The strange saga of C&O 1309 restoration just got strang
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:16 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:04 am
Posts: 84
If you do the math:
16 miles of railroad is about 84,480 feet of railroad
So figure 46,080 ties at 22" centers
3,000 ties is about 7% of your total ties.
If you did this every year you would replace all of your ties in 15 +/- years which is close to the current life of a grade III 6x8 crosstie (not nearly as long as it used to be).
Doesn't seen like a bad program if they can keep with it.

Your mileage may vary....

BTW we have been purchasing used 7x9 mainline takeout/relay ties for about $17.00. From what we can see, we should get 10 to 15 years of life out of them in our service which means we can do twice as many for the same price, plus get a bigger tie.

Tim Andrews
Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum

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 Post subject: Re: The strange saga of C&O 1309 restoration just got strang
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:23 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
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Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
I am curious, how do you value the labor to change out the tie? Is it "free"?

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Danmarks Tekniske Universitet
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 Post subject: Re: The strange saga of C&O 1309 restoration just got strang
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:54 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:54 am
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Location: Tucson, Arizona
softwerkslex wrote:
I am curious, how do you value the labor to change out the tie? Is it "free"?


There are possible reasons that the cost of labor is not included in the current budget request/estimate. It is possible that that cost was already addressed in a previous budget or might be contained in some other request.

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 Post subject: Re: The strange saga of C&O 1309 restoration just got strang
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:52 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:06 am
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Steven,
My guess would be the cost of the track crew is budgeted under labor costs with the assumption they would be there working on something anyway. mld

{edited to expand for clarity}


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