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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack Park Agency oks scrapping RR line to Lake Pla
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:09 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:32 pm
Posts: 170
EMD GP-9 #6076 now listed for sale on OMR.
https://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/ra ... ocomotives
Is this a bad sign?


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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack Park Agency oks scrapping RR line to Lake Pla
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:56 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:15 pm
Posts: 138
Location: At large
The GP9 has always been privately owned and leased to the railroad. Not a sign of anything.

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ALCO Historical & Technical Society


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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack Park Agency oks scrapping RR line to Lake Pla
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:36 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
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business is business, flipping an owner and lease from that owner. Nearby restaurant has changed owners around but the restaurant keeps jumpin...no name change either.


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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack Park Agency oks scrapping RR line to Lake Pla
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:06 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 523
Some reporting by Phil Brown in the Adirondack Explorer:
Quote:
The Adirondack Park Agency will consider amending the State Land Master Plan next week to allow the state to create a thirty-four-mile rail trail between Lake Placid and Tupper Lake.

The APA approved the rail trail in 2016, but a state judge ruled last fall that the trail would violate the State Land Master Plan.
and
Quote:
The APA staff is now recommending that the definition of Travel Corridor be changed. A subcategory, Railroad Corridor, would be added, defined as “the fee or easement lands that include a railbed for the Remsen-Lake Placid railroad and any future acquisition that may be considered for classification as a travel corridor, existing either (1) for the operation of rail cars, or (2) to serve as a rail trail.”

The proposed amendment to the master plan is in a draft environmental impact statement prepared by the APA staff. If the APA board approves the document, the agency will hold hearings before making a final decision.

Link to the full article: APA seeks to revive Lake Placid rail-trail proposal Thank you for taking the time to read the full article before commenting on it here.

The draft environmenal impact statement the article describes is posted as a PDF file on the Adirondack Park Agency's website:
COVER SHEET and NOTICE OF COMPLETION of DRAFT SUPPLEMENTAL ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT STATEMENT


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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack Park Agency oks scrapping RR line to Lake Pla
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:11 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
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Is it finally getting into their heads now? This part of the Plan B they have to do when your original plan blows up.
So far it may be turning the right direction.


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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack Park Agency oks scrapping RR line to Lake Pla
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:49 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:07 pm
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Location: Leicester, MA.
The appeal hasn't been filed by the state, but instead they suggest changing the definitions in the State Land Plan. The same plan the judge said they were violating with the trail plan. Seems to me like an attempt to get around the judge's ruling... Is that even a viable legal remedy to the judge's order?

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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack Park Agency oks scrapping RR line to Lake Pla
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:23 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:12 am
Posts: 479
Location: Somewhere off the coast of New England
daylight4449 wrote:
The appeal hasn't been filed by the state, but instead they suggest changing the definitions in the State Land Plan. The same plan the judge said they were violating with the trail plan. Seems to me like an attempt to get around the judge's ruling... Is that even a viable legal remedy to the judge's order?
If a client is told by a court that there is a defect in a plan or an agreement as their attorney I am obligated to advise them that one of their options is to simply try to cure the defect rather than continue litigation. The question then becomes whether or not the court will accept the cure.

Since the modification to the plan involves a public hearing process it will take a while and may well change before the final version is submitted to the court. The Preservation Society will have the opportunity to appear at the public hearings and, as the plaintiff in the matter, to to argue before the court whether or not the defect is cured.

GME


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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack Park Agency oks scrapping RR line to Lake Pla
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:37 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 523
Great post, GME, but I am afraid you are naive w.r.t. NYS politics:
Trainlawyer wrote:
Since the modification to the plan involves a public hearing process it will take a while and may well change before the final version is submitted to the court.
Actually, the New York State Adirondack Park Agency is attempting to complete the public hearing process very quickly, according to the COVER SHEET and NOTICE OF COMPLETION of DRAFT SUPPLEMENTAL ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT STATEMENT posted on the APA's website.

Page 2 has this schedule:
Quote:
PUBLIC HEARINGS ON THE PROPOSED AMENDMENTS TO APSLMP WILL BE HELD AT THE FOLLOWING LOCATIONS:

April 11, 2018
7:00 pm
Adirondack Park Agency
1133 NYS Route 86
Ray Brook, NY

April 24, 2018
7:00 pm
The View
3273 NY
S Route 28
Old Forge, NY

April 25, 2018
11:00 am
NYSDEC
625 Broadway
Albany, NY

DATE THRU WHICH PUBLIC COMMENTS WILL BE ACCEPTED: May 7, 2018
It looks to me like the NYS Adirondack Park Agency is attempting to end the public comment process before snowbirds (wikipedia) return north for the summer.

The public hearing schedule and comment deadline will not even be approved until the NYSAPA meets on Thursday, March 8, 2018.


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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack Park Agency oks scrapping RR line to Lake Pla
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:48 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 523
A February 28, 2018 column in the Adirondack Daily Enterprise by Saranac Lake resident Keith Gorgas who wants the rail line to end in his town instead of Lake Placid (where it ends now) or Tupper Lake (where NY State wants it to end):
Quote:
Within the last week, Saranac Lake village officials have reached out to our community seeking ideas to include in an application for a grant to help revitalize our downtown. That caused me to think about what could be and what is needed to keep Saranac Lake, one of the best small communities in these United States. We have unparalleled natural resources, surrounded by lakes and mountains, miles and miles of recreational trails, and a charming and historic downtown center. We have arts, music, restaurants and cafes. What is lacking that could make it better?

We also have competing ideologies that have led to the recent loss of the Adirondack Scenic Railroad and the very popular Rail Explorers Inc. Between the two concerns, almost 40 jobs have chased from Saranac Lake. A significant number of our downtown shops are now empty, stores that were bustling until a few years ago. I hope the opening of the restored Hotel Saranac will provide a strong boost to the downtown area, but New York state’s plan to remove the railroad tracks from Tupper Lake to Lake Placid, replacing it with yet another recreational trail, in my opinion, will result in a permanent loss of potential business. Last year, acting Judge Robert Main ruled the state’s plan was illegal on all counts. Presently, the state has filed a motion to appeal, but no perfected appeal has been submitted. The last thing Saranac Lake needs is the stranglehold of years more fighting back and forth, with nothing done within the rail travel corridor.
Link to the full editorial: What if?


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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack Park Agency oks scrapping RR line to Lake Pla
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:12 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3256
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Another story.

http://www.adirondackdailyenterprise.co ... efinition/


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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack Park Agency oks scrapping RR line to Lake Pla
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:11 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
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why do they keep trying? The judge should be informed of this.


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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack Park Agency oks scrapping RR line to Lake Pla
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:02 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3256
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
dinwitty wrote:
Why do they keep trying? The judge should be informed of this.


I think this comment following the article by Daniel Baldwin, a trail supporter, may explain a great deal (emphasis added):

Quote:
A while back when Judge Main made his ruling, whether right or wrong, the railroad folks cheered, applauded and spiked the ball, I remember saying that "It ain't over till it's over". I reminded them that King Andrew was not only arrogant, vindictive, self serving as well as corrupt and will get what he wants one way or another. This may be one of the rare times that it will benefit the local economies. The railroad folks may want to rethink their fight with Cuomo and at all cost strategy, accept his compromise offer therefore keeping a majority of the rails for their use. There is no doubt in my mind that if he loses this fight with the railroad folks, there will be no money for any part of the rails and the waiting game will begin. Let's face it, there is no money anywhere else for the purpose of repair to be had and in time the already crumbling rails will no longer support train passage, it will at that point all be a trail.


Reading this and other comments from him here, I actually feel sorry for him. By his own admission he has a governor who's a problem, very likely a whole state government that's a problem--and he's given up on it.

Let this be a reminder for us that no matter where we live, in our own states and our own communities, we have civic duties that go beyond railroading.


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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack Park Agency oks scrapping RR line to Lake Pla
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:13 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:28 pm
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@J3a-614.

Mr. Baldwin states some facts regarding the situation with this Governor's past performance. Far too pessimistic at this point. The Gov is on record, according the same newspaper in May 2016, approving the upgrade of the ROW to Tupper Lake and more money for trails.

What the APA is considering is distinctly incomplete in that virtually every proposal for action is conditioned by a future UMP, yet undefined and unwritten -- similar approach that was taken in the action that Judge Main deemed illegal.

The public hearings are scheduled after a deadline imposed on the NYS AG to finalize the appeal of Judge Main, according to appellate court documents.


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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack Park Agency oks scrapping RR line to Lake Pla
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:19 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:28 pm
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@Chris Webster,

The hearing locales are inadequate in the amend process envisioned in the SLMP. Most followers believe that hearings need to take place across the state since the properties in question are owned by all taxpayers, not just those in the DAKs. An attorney may well be a better resource, but many, not attorneys, consider this a serious flaw in this proposal.


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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack Park Agency oks scrapping RR line to Lake Pla
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:31 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 523
The latest from the March 9, 2018 Adirondack Daily Enterprise:
Quote:
RAY BROOK – After losing a court battle late last year over a proposed rail trail, the state Adirondack Park Agency approved a plan Thursday that, if finalized, would clear the legal hurdles necessary to build a trail between Tupper Lake and Lake Placid.

The APA board approved a change to the State Land Master Plan [SLMP] that would allow the state Department of Environmental Conservation to decide whether to pull up the tracks on 34 miles of the Remsen-Lake Placid Travel Corridor.
and
Quote:
While the APA approved the new plan, the agency is taking public comments until May 7. It will also host three public meetings where verbal comments can be made, including meetings in Ray Brook on April 11; in Old Forge on April 24; and in Albany on April 25. Comments can also be submitted to the APA via mail or email.
Link to full article: APA OKs travel corridor plan - Change would allow construction of rail trail; Agency seeks public comments


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