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 Post subject: Re: UP Steam 4014 Update - March 3rd 2018 Presentation
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:30 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 4000
Location: Maine
Or...you could put 5511 (UP 2-10-2, dead in Cheyenne roundhouse) up there, remove 4023, run her through the shops and have TWO Big Boys (count'em, TWO) in service!!!

Now watch someone grab this thread and make it a "fact" on the web.

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 Post subject: Re: UP Steam 4014 Update - March 3rd 2018 Presentation
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:45 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:57 am
Posts: 204
Location: Sandpoint, ID
I don't see the point of dragging any iron up any hill for display. The day of outdoor railroad displays has passed. I packed the grease cakes and greased and exercised the valve gear with the power reverse on 5511, along with an oil-around a number of times over years. It's a very rebuild-able locomotive and would be a shame to put outside.


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 Post subject: Re: UP Steam 4014 Update - March 3rd 2018 Presentation
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:02 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:42 am
Posts: 232
Location: Lancaster, PA
Hello,

This those in the know on this forum, with the 4014 being converted to oil firing, I recently heard of the potential for strong stack draft pulling the flame off the burner on oil fired live steam locomotives. Is this an equal risk on full size locomotives?

If a "flame-out does" occur how would you re-light under high load conditions? Seems to me you would quickly get the "white fog of death" in the firebox (volatized fuel oil vapor) flashing off the hot surfaces.....basically an explosive mixture.

Just curious if those on the forum could elaborate who have experience oil firing.....especially in response to wide draft variations from full forward gear to lesser demand after you hook it up. Obviously you would regulate the oil flow similar to adjusting coal stoker speed. How sensitive is the balance between oil flow and draft?

Certainly the 4000's didn't have a flame-out issue! They lifted large volumes of unburned coal off the grates on a routine basis! ;-)

Thank you in advance!

Sincerely,

Randy


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 Post subject: Re: UP Steam 4014 Update - March 3rd 2018 Presentation
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:11 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1119
Location: Back in NE Ohio
I drove past the Big Boy/Centennial display along I-80 entering Omaha about nine years ago on a very rainy Saturday while driving to Colorado, and regarded it as a three-dimensional billboard for UP in it's headquarters hometown. While it is out exposed to the elements, I didn't regard the display as outrageous or in poor taste and appeared to be kept up and painted.


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 Post subject: Re: UP Steam 4014 Update - March 3rd 2018 Presentation
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:26 pm 

Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 1:12 am
Posts: 91
I know this is a little off topic but with the pride UP has in their history I feel a UP railroad museum showcasing surviving examples of their locomotives and rolling stock through the ages would speak volume to the masses. Seeing their progression from the last UP 440, to the Mikado, 9000, challenger, big boy, big blow, dd40x to modern day would make for 1 heck of a railroad museum!


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 Post subject: Re: UP Steam 4014 Update - March 3rd 2018 Presentation
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:15 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5550
Location: southeastern USA
Locomotive oil setups - the historic variety - are notoriously able to deal with a wide variation of conditions and changes and burn anything from jet fuel through Bunker C you have to melt down to make flow (but inefficiently). If conditions like water or other problems in the fuel combine with losing her feet, you can blow the fire out - but a good fireman can relight from the hot brickwork by opening the damper, a bit of blower to clear the box, and reestablishing fuel flow at the quadrant. Once lit, the fire can be managed back to operating conditions as necessary. To me, the challenge is designing the combustion engineering to set a huge coal burning firebox up for oil firing - but it's likely the UP did this figuring about 50 years ago or more. Starting from a clean sheet today, using light oil, we could do much more in terms of efficiency and cleanliness, not to mention firebox life.

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 Post subject: Re: UP Steam 4014 Update - March 3rd 2018 Presentation
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:07 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:42 pm
Posts: 148
Here's the latest update from UP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdScWfMg4mg


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 Post subject: Re: UP Steam 4014 Update - March 3rd 2018 Presentation
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:40 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 546
Location: Byers, Colorado
The reason I always leave a bit of blower going, is that every so often, my (oil) fire might go out, and produce the deadly white gas. Maybe it happens if your engineer runs too far down in the corner with the throttle wide open. Maybe he has to suddenly shut off when he wasn't expecting to. Maybe it happens when you're parked in the station, with a Sunday school class looking at the engine. Maybe you get a slug of condensate in the fuel...

The way I relight is 1) DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING !!! If you had your fire set right, IT IS STILL SET RIGHT. 2) Shut off your atomizer 3) Count to three 4) Turn your atomizer back on.

That pretty much works in any circumstances. Would it work on a Big Boy ??? I don't know. It's the first thing I'd try if it was me. I'd also be scared to work on that thing myself.

By the way --- I toured the UP steam shops 10 days ago, I'M IMPRESSED, don't know about anybody else, but I like seeing that somebody is actually pulling it off. One thing that especially impressed me is that the guys told me that if I had their resources and tools, I could do it too... I'm not convinced of that, but I find their modesty refreshing.

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 Post subject: Re: UP Steam 4014 Update - March 3rd 2018 Presentation
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 4:16 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:27 am
Posts: 23
I heard from my friend in the steam shops this weekend. The timeline is before Thanksgiving 4014 will be moving under her own power as in a break in run. Hydrostatic test they are hoping for sometime in late September or early October.


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 Post subject: Re: UP Steam 4014 Update - March 3rd 2018 Presentation
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 5:00 pm 

Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 1:12 am
Posts: 91
I know this is foaming, but UP has a keen eye for UPs famous locomotives (DD40X, 4000, 38/3900, 800). What about the 9000? That class is just as unique to UP as the big boys. Boy would it be nice to have 9000 as a part of the steam program. Being a 3 cylinder it would be the only 3 cyl in operation anywhere in the US.

Back on track I'm excited for 4014s rebuild to finish. It's been a childhood dream to see one in operation.


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 Post subject: Re: UP Steam 4014 Update - March 3rd 2018 Presentation
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 3:35 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:38 pm
Posts: 34
Given the maintenance already required by a steam locomotive and the time demands of such a small crew, in addition to running the locomotives they already have (not just steam), I highly doubt that the steam crew would willingly take on a 9xxx just because of the 3 cylinder arrangement. I don't believe the new overhead crane has the capacity to lift the boiler and that would be the only way into that 3rd for anything other than maintenance. Consider that they have 4 tracks in the shop and with the diesel platforms that limits the work you can do without moving the engine, I think that honestly it would be not a lot of bang for their buck. Also consider that they need to take loading gage into consideration. I don't know specifically how the 9xxx relates to a 4xxx in terms of loading gage but I imagine that the 4xxx is a better fit through tunnels and narrow sections of the railway. A 4xxx while being a much larger boiler and locomotive, is a lot more flexible in every sense of the word.

A 9xxx would be a great prestige item for any museum or railroad and the railgiants museum is lucky to have such a interesting and beautiful locomotive.

If you have a interest in live steam I suggest you check out this 4-12-2 work in progress based off a 9xxx. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUiF0WHnl_U


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 Post subject: Re: UP Steam 4014 Update - March 3rd 2018 Presentation
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:47 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5427
DWH -

Beautiful work on the running gear of the (future) 4-12-2. I noticed that all the drivers are flanged. I'm going from memory, but didn't the 9000's have one set of drivers that were flangeless? I might well be wrong.*


Les

* Did a bit of checking on the internet and found out that the 9000's had flanges on all drivers, so the live steam model is correct. Alco apparently planned that the engines would have their 3rd and 4th axles flangeless, however, lateral motion devices on the first and sixth axles determined that this would not be necessary.

Les


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