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 Post subject: Re: United Nations to Collaborate With Thomas the Tank Engin
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:42 pm 

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Also keep in mind we're talking about 9 episodes. 9 out of the 26 that are in a season.


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 Post subject: Re: United Nations to Collaborate With Thomas the Tank Engin
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:45 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:52 am
Posts: 29
Ed Kapuscinski wrote:
I STILL don't understand the backlash against what people are calling "political correctness".

What's the problem with being respectful of people? That's ALL it is.

I understand that sometimes it requires people to do some uncomfortable self-examination, but I guarantee you'll be a better person for it.

Of course there are extreme examples that are frequently the source of much derision, but those are NOT the norm and NOT what it's actually about.


I think the problem with "political correctness" lies in the word "political" rather than the "correctness" part. Of course we should respect each other. Of course we should not treat any group of people as lesser beings because of who they are.

The problem is that letting politicians/governments dictate what is "correct" is a dangerous thing. When a government/organization decides what is right and what is wrong and then dictates the content of kid's TV shows to spread this message, we are getting dangerously close to what one may consider "propaganda". I would personally rather teach my kids what is right and wrong rather than letting a government/organization do so.... even if I agreed with everything said government was teaching. It doesn't take much for a government/organization to go from having good intentions to bad intentions. And if this should happen would you still want them to dictate TV content?


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 Post subject: Re: United Nations to Collaborate With Thomas the Tank Engin
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:58 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:52 am
Posts: 29
Ed Kapuscinski wrote:
Political indoctrination of what, again. They're not saying "vote for this person", they're saying "people of all types have value". If that's not a thing you're about teaching kids, well, I don't really know what to say. And if parents turn it off because of that, well, I wonder what other terrible stuff they're teaching their kids.


I don't want my children being indoctrinated by politicians, even if I agree with everything the politician might be saying. In my opinion (which we all know what they say about opinions), I would rather my (future) children look towards me or doing their own research in forming morals and opinions rather than just accepting what a government says is right. Because, as we all know, what the government says is right/correct is constantly changing based on those in power.

I would rather TV shows like Thomas the Tank Engine teach children math, science, grammar, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: United Nations to Collaborate With Thomas the Tank Engin
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:00 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:08 pm
Posts: 299
Location: Amherst, Oh
bbaker wrote:
I think the problem with "political correctness" lies in the word "political" rather than the "correctness" part. Of course we should respect each other. Of course we should not treat any group of people as lesser beings because of who they are.

The problem is that letting politicians/governments dictate what is "correct" is a dangerous thing. When a government/organization decides what is right and what is wrong and then dictates the content of kid's TV shows to spread this message, we are getting dangerously close to what one may consider "propaganda". I would personally rather teach my kids what is right and wrong rather than letting a government/organization do so.... even if I agreed with everything said government was teaching. It doesn't take much for a government/organization to go from having good intentions to bad intentions. And if this should happen would you still want them to dictate TV content?


That does make sense, and I can understand your point. When I read the article I took away the impression that Mattel (a publicly traded company) reached out to the UN for help in shaping some Thomas stories, as opposed to the government dictating content. If the UN hostilely took over Thomas and said "THIS IS HOW THOMAS WILL BE" then yeah, that's a gross overreach of power and we should be buying pitchforks and torches.

I get caught up in it also but man does it suck having to look at everything in life through a political lens. If Thomas wants to go on vacation and be nice to girls then let him.


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 Post subject: Re: United Nations to Collaborate With Thomas the Tank Engin
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:03 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am
Posts: 2417
6-18003 wrote:
Emmo213 wrote:
Nike stock is down approximately 2.5% since the new ad, but still up approximately 28% for the year. They've hardly gone broke.

I won't buy another pair, one drop in the bucket but who knows.


This isn't a political issue, it is a business issue. That's the only lens it should be viewed through.

No matter what any of us believes individually, if we are looking to market to a broad audience we need to take into consideration that there are a wide array of folks to appeal to. So far, evidence shows that brands which have widened their markets by embracing more "woke" (I really dislike that phrase) social trends tend to increase their business. Few, if any, have been hurt. That's the bet HIT is taking.

And that's the lesson as far as RYPN is concerned. If the biggest railroad entertainment property is going down this path, it's a sign that any of us who care about ticket sales and visitor counts, should - at the very least - pay close attention with our business hats on.

Rob

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 Post subject: Re: United Nations to Collaborate With Thomas the Tank Engin
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:23 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:49 pm
Posts: 68
Location: Northern Illinois
I understand some may have political objections, but I am still a bit confused by this thread. The creators of Thomas have no obligation to keep it politics-free. If their current business model isn't working, trying new ideas is the best thing to do, especially if it has worked for some others. After all, if the popularity of Thomas is revitalized after this, wouldn't that be good for all of us?


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 Post subject: Re: United Nations to Collaborate With Thomas the Tank Engin
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:49 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:07 pm
Posts: 515
Location: B'more Maryland
bbaker wrote:
The problem is that letting politicians/governments dictate what is "correct" is a dangerous thing. When a government/organization decides what is right and what is wrong and then dictates the content of kid's TV shows to spread this message, we are getting dangerously close to what one may consider "propaganda".


Having a government dictate what is correct is LITERALLY the point of having a government. Usually they do it through laws though.


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 Post subject: Re: United Nations to Collaborate With Thomas the Tank Engin
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:30 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:52 am
Posts: 29
Ed Kapuscinski wrote:
bbaker wrote:
The problem is that letting politicians/governments dictate what is "correct" is a dangerous thing. When a government/organization decides what is right and what is wrong and then dictates the content of kid's TV shows to spread this message, we are getting dangerously close to what one may consider "propaganda".


Having a government dictate what is correct is LITERALLYthe point of having a government. Usually they do it through laws though.


Not in a democracy.......

From Merriam Webster:

"Fascism: a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition"

From Collins English Dictionary:

"Regimentation is very strict control over the way a group of people behave or the way something is done.

Democracy is incompatible with excessive, bureaucratic regimentation of social life"


The people should tell the government what is correct. Not the other way around.... Unless you prefer fascism to democracy.


This is why I don't want any government or entity telling my (future) children what is correct. It's not their job.


Last edited by bbaker on Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: United Nations to Collaborate With Thomas the Tank Engin
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:39 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2349
Location: Northern Illinois
lmckay175 wrote:
I understand some may have political objections, but I am still a bit confused by this thread. The creators of Thomas have no obligation to keep it politics-free. If their current business model isn't working, trying new ideas is the best thing to do, especially if it has worked for some others. After all, if the popularity of Thomas is revitalized after this, wouldn't that be good for all of us?


Unless it reduces the popularity of the character, or works counter to our goals, then it's not good for all of us.

In addition, there is something to be said for not signing on with a promotional venue that promots something that runs counter to your organization's mission.

A rhetorical question... If Thomas and his new friends promoted the application of graffiti, as cultural freedom or whatever, would you still want to do a Thomas event at your museum?

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 Post subject: Re: United Nations to Collaborate With Thomas the Tank Engin
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:47 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:08 pm
Posts: 299
Location: Amherst, Oh
bbaker wrote:
This is why I don't want any government or entity telling my (future) children what is correct. It's not their job.



And for Thomas they're not - Mattel is.


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 Post subject: Re: United Nations to Collaborate With Thomas the Tank Engin
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:35 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:07 pm
Posts: 515
Location: B'more Maryland
bbaker wrote:
Ed Kapuscinski wrote:
bbaker wrote:
The problem is that letting politicians/governments dictate what is "correct" is a dangerous thing. When a government/organization decides what is right and what is wrong and then dictates the content of kid's TV shows to spread this message, we are getting dangerously close to what one may consider "propaganda".


Having a government dictate what is correct is LITERALLYthe point of having a government. Usually they do it through laws though.


Not in a democracy.......

From Merriam Webster:

"Fascism: a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition"

From Collins English Dictionary:

"Regimentation is very strict control over the way a group of people behave or the way something is done.

Democracy is incompatible with excessive, bureaucratic regimentation of social life"


The people should tell the government what is correct. Not the other way around.... Unless you prefer fascism to democracy.


This is why I don't want any government or entity telling my (future) children what is correct. It's not their job.


Whoa whoa whoa. That's a pretty far jump from "don't be disrespectful" and equal protection before the law to "social regimentation".

What is it that you think that they may try to use Thomas the Tank Engine as a vehicle to teach kids that you think is so abhorrent as to make it fascist?


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 Post subject: Re: United Nations to Collaborate With Thomas the Tank Engin
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:38 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:07 pm
Posts: 515
Location: B'more Maryland
Dennis Storzek wrote:
lmckay175 wrote:
I understand some may have political objections, but I am still a bit confused by this thread. The creators of Thomas have no obligation to keep it politics-free. If their current business model isn't working, trying new ideas is the best thing to do, especially if it has worked for some others. After all, if the popularity of Thomas is revitalized after this, wouldn't that be good for all of us?


Unless it reduces the popularity of the character, or works counter to our goals, then it's not good for all of us.

In addition, there is something to be said for not signing on with a promotional venue that promots something that runs counter to your organization's mission.

A rhetorical question... If Thomas and his new friends promoted the application of graffiti, as cultural freedom or whatever, would you still want to do a Thomas event at your museum?


Lets try to be realistic here. I highly doubt that the latter is going to be the case.

And what, again, are people expecting Mattel to be promoting through Thomas stories that is going to be counter to a railway preservation group's mission?

I really think that peoples reactions to this are really more based on their own existential discomfort with the reality of the modern world and their lack of primacy in it than the ACTUAL reality of what's happening.


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 Post subject: Re: United Nations to Collaborate With Thomas the Tank Engin
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:49 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
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Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
Ed Kapuscinski wrote:
I STILL don't understand the backlash against what people are calling "political correctness".

What's the problem with being respectful of people? That's ALL it is.

At the risk of sounding like a Rush Limbaugh "dittohead" or something of that ilk:

If you literally believe that load of codswallop you just typed........ then you are simply NOT paying attention to the ways "political correctness" is actually being implemented.

There are people and ideas out there that literally do not deserve to be "respected." I would start with people who hold as literal truth that the planet Earth and all it contains were created by some "supreme being" a couple thousand years ago, at least as far as being "scientific fact." I personally don't believe that a religion that tells you to kill non-believers deserves any degree of "respect." Nor anyone who claims all "global warming" is a hoax perpetrated by [fill in the hoaxers]. Nor people who believe all women should be subservient to men, or that all men are would-be "rapists." Donald Trump? A long list of ex-US presidents, for one reason or another?

The concept of "political correctness" is being used/abused to: 1) promote ideas that really don't deserve to be promoted, because under PC all ideas are deemed equally worthy of "respect;" and 2) to shut down or censor debate over or opposition to those ideas. The most cynical definition of "PC" tends to be that no group is allowed to be criticized or cast in a negative light except Caucasian (and, presumably, Christian or descended from Christian) males. All others are presumed to be in a "minority" that warrants protection from being offended in any manner by the virtue of being a minority.

Now, back to Thomas or whatever:

The Simpsons, in one of their earliest episodes (Season Two, Episode 9), brilliantly parodied what happens when a popular children's cartoon show (in this case, The Itchy & Scratchy Show, a more gruesome parody of early Tom & Jerry cartoons) goes "politically correct" to answer the demands of concerned parents worried about their children, and instead of slapstick violence flying back and forth, the two characters become lovey-dovey best friends.
The kids just turned off that boring pablum and went outside and played, to the strains of the last movement of Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony.
The TV producers quickly corrected their mistake, restored the violence, and the kids ran back to the TVs again to take root.
(This, incidentally, is based directly on reality: Hanna/Barbera, who had worked on the MGM-produced T&J theater shorts in the 1940s and 1950s, relaunched them for Saturday morning TV in 1975-77 in that exact best-buddies format to get around increasing restrictions on "violence" on TV, and the audience just didn't materialize until they went back to slapstick-styled violence in later shows.)

Children know when they're being preached to, even at the "Thomas" target audience age. And, yes, that's what "promoting inclusiveness/diversity/whatever" is, whether we like it or not. It takes amazing skill and talent to do so without being overbearing or obvious. Fred Rogers of "Mister Rogers' Neighborhood" had it. The writers of "Sesame Street" had it. Nancy Reagan's "Just Say No" campaign did not, and as a result was openly mocked for years.

It remains to be seen what will come of this "allegiance" between a U.N. committee and Mattel. But those who have studied or worked with the entertainment industry (and, believe it or not, that includes excursion lines!) might have a bit of cause for cynicism. It also remains to be seen whether this will "save the brand" or, in the end, be seen as comparable to the once-great Sears selling off the Craftsman and Kenmore brands as they circled the drain.........


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 Post subject: Re: United Nations to Collaborate With Thomas the Tank Engin
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:48 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:58 am
Posts: 38
Ed Kapuscinski wrote:
I STILL don't understand the backlash against what people are calling "political correctness".

What's the problem with being respectful of people? That's ALL it is.




I suspect part of the problem is how the United Nations has been portrayed as an omnipotent nation killing totalitarian overlord coming to steal your freedom by certain segments of the mass media.

We have always been at war with Eastasia.

Brian


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 Post subject: Re: United Nations to Collaborate With Thomas the Tank Engin
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:21 pm 
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bbaker wrote:
The problem is that letting politicians/governments dictate what is "correct" is a dangerous thing. When a government/organization decides what is right and what is wrong and then dictates the content of kid's TV shows to spread this message, we are getting dangerously close to what one may consider "propaganda". I would personally rather teach my kids what is right and wrong rather than letting a government/organization do so.... even if I agreed with everything said government was teaching. It doesn't take much for a government/organization to go from having good intentions to bad intentions. And if this should happen would you still want them to dictate TV content?

Good point.
It's truly frightening that some folks can't see that PC-isms, left unquestioned, can be used to whatever end you desire. Question nothing, we know what's best for you. Dictators would probably do better with using PC stuff to push their agendas; they just need to get people wo are really good at it.
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Children know when they're being preached to, even at the "Thomas" target audience age. And, yes, that's what "promoting inclusiveness/diversity/whatever" is, whether we like it or not. It takes amazing skill and talent to do so without being overbearing or obvious. Fred Rogers of "Mister Rogers' Neighborhood" had it. The writers of "Sesame Street" had it. Nancy Reagan's "Just Say No" campaign did not, and as a result was openly mocked for years.
True, kids are much more savvy than adults remember from when they were kids. I knew full well when someone was pushing an agenda, even when I was a little kid.
PBS when I was a kid was excellent at it, and I'm glad that their agendas were well intentioned.

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