It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 9:43 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Steam Brake Question
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:01 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:37 pm
Posts: 65
Sounds crazy but, I'd like to put brakes on a locomotive that will likely never run.

About a year ago, I acquired a 36 inch gauge 0-6-0 locomotive, built in 1890 by H. K. Porter as a street motor or steam dummy, CN 1167.

It originally had steam brakes but, the cylinder is missing.

Attachment:
File comment: Original Brake Rigging
7509_1r.jpg
7509_1r.jpg [ 312.73 KiB | Viewed 5744 times ]


The cylinder is very similar to that on CN 922 shown below.
I regret not closely examining the feature circled in red below, when I had the chance.
However, based on the Porter drawings, it appears to be just a support.

Anyway, the cylinder seems simple enough to replicate.

CN 922 has a single steam line connection and small vent hole in the cylinder head.
There was no return spring so, any pressure was released either at the brake valve or through a cylinder drip valve, when the steam was cut off.

Does my theory about the support and steam connections make sense?

I'd like to hear about any similar setups.

Attachment:
File comment: CN 922 Cylinder
DSC04755r.jpg
DSC04755r.jpg [ 299.89 KiB | Viewed 5744 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: CN 922 Cylinder
DSC04756r.jpg
DSC04756r.jpg [ 341.43 KiB | Viewed 5744 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: Porter Drawing
DSC05330.jpg
DSC05330.jpg [ 321.25 KiB | Viewed 5744 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: Porter Drawing
DSC05332r.jpg
DSC05332r.jpg [ 301.76 KiB | Viewed 5744 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: Porter Drawing
DSC05331.jpg
DSC05331.jpg [ 315.05 KiB | Viewed 5744 times ]


Thanks,
Dave


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steam Brake Question
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:26 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 2561
Location: Strasburg, PA
I believe that steam brakes use double acting cylinders. If not, there wouldn't be any reason to have a packing gland on the piston rod. I expect that the circled feature in your photo is the steam inlet to the piston rod end of the cylinder.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steam Brake Question
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:57 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 6399
Location: southeastern USA
I've worked on some small lokies with steam jams - the majority do not have the steam pipe on the end with the packing gland - in fact, don't have a packing gland at all, because the steam goes in and out of the other end. Some don't even have a head on the steam side.... anyhow, what's important in your pictures is the slope down from the bore to the steam line in / out. At the lowest point is the condensation relief valve which is a poppet valve like a snifter but held up from its seat by a spring with very little spring rate on it. Steam entering the line to the cylinder close it against it's seat. Steam having been removed by means of the 3 way steam brake valve in the cab the lack of pressure in the cylinder / line allows the spring to lift it off its seat and gravity drains the condensation - vacuum is broken through the valve being open to the exhaust / outside air. Somewhere I think I have the Glover Machine Works drawings for this stuff...….

_________________
“God, the beautiful racket of it all: the sighing and hissing, the rattle and clack of the cars over the rails. These were the sounds that made America the greatest country on earth." Jonathan Evison


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steam Brake Question
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:20 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:05 pm
Posts: 270
Looks to me like the cylinder is in fact a single acting 'pull' type with packing gland. The rigging drawing confirms it's a pull type with the (looks like 5.5" x 5.5") dead lever arrangement on the rear brake beam. Do you have a drawing of the cylinder head? It would tell if there was provision for a spring return, even if 922 didn't have one. An older, small, inexpensive, very-low-tech switch engine might not have much of a return system since banging around would loosen things up fairly quickly and they weren't operating at high speed. The small hole in the head would be the air exhaust for applying the brakes - its small size would function as an orifice to limit the speed the piston can move to avoid hammering the brakes. The boss you circled looks like it's intended to be bored as an oil cup or lubricator line fitting for the piston. Might have been a customer option since there isn't any boring/finishing drawn on the prints. It's a pretty crappy location for a cup, being right in front of the ash pan. A better solution was probably steam oil in the brake steam supply - maybe a small single displacement lubricator if the customer wanted to splurge.

_________________
G.
______________________________________
Radio crackles - "What the #^(& did we just hit, over?"


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steam Brake Question
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:55 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 2561
Location: Strasburg, PA
TrainDetainer wrote:
Looks to me like the cylinder is in fact a single acting 'pull' type with packing gland. The rigging drawing confirms it's a pull type.

Right you are, good eye.

Here is the only published information on steam brakes that I could find. Per the plumbing, they are pull to apply as well, but they have "push" rods coming out of the piston rods:

Attachment:
1DOC101618-101618-0001.jpg
1DOC101618-101618-0001.jpg [ 304.83 KiB | Viewed 5345 times ]


Attachment:
2DOC101618-101618-0001.jpg
2DOC101618-101618-0001.jpg [ 230.47 KiB | Viewed 5345 times ]


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steam Brake Question
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:26 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1899
Location: Youngstown, OH
The Lima brakes were double acting, in that they had a steam back-off feature. When a Lima brake is released there is a very audible clunk as the brake fully retracts.

_________________
From the desk of Rick Rowlands
inside Conrail caboose 21747


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steam Brake Question
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:54 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 6399
Location: southeastern USA
The release on the little lokies is from the weight of the shoes dropping themselves away from the treads. I think the hole in the head in your picture is to prevent back pressure or vacuum on the "wrong" end of the piston space in the cylinder. The boss at the low corner could be for the steam line or a separate condensation drain valve.

Lima sure did know how to complicate things......

_________________
“God, the beautiful racket of it all: the sighing and hissing, the rattle and clack of the cars over the rails. These were the sounds that made America the greatest country on earth." Jonathan Evison


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steam Brake Question
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:02 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:37 pm
Posts: 65
I certainly appreciate the comments.

Here's a slightly different or vertical setup with a drip valve.
I'm guessing this is single action, with piping from head to drain condensate.

Attachment:
File comment: Porter Drip Valve
DSC05444r.jpg
DSC05444r.jpg [ 323.88 KiB | Viewed 5118 times ]


Thanks,
Dave


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steam Brake Question
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:52 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:05 pm
Posts: 270
I've worked on a Davenport that had double acting steam brakes and Kelly has the Lima literature - so another question is was Porter the only one to use single acting?

_________________
G.
______________________________________
Radio crackles - "What the #^(& did we just hit, over?"


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steam Brake Question
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:13 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:37 pm
Posts: 65
Local museum has a Vulcan locomotive with a single acting steam brake cylinder.
It's about the same size but slightly different configuration. Original piping is missing.

The Porter drawings show many configurations of brake cylinders, including air, vacuum and steam, single and double action.

Thanks,
Dave


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Schultz and 122 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: