FWRHS Purchases ex-Amtrak Cars

NS 3322 · **Posted:** Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:06 pm

I stumbled on this "press release" on the Akron Railroad Club's website:

Akron Railroad Club wrote:

Ex-Amtrak Cars Went Home With NKP 765
October 5, 2019

When Nickel Plate Road 2-8-4 No. 765 returned home to New Haven, Indiana, this week after a two-week stay on the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad it took home some “souvenirs.”

The ferry move from Cleveland had in tow some former Amtrak rolling stock that the Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Society bought earlier this year.

The cars included several baggage cars and a former Chicago, Burlington & Quincy dining car.

The dining car will become the Society’s new souvenir and concession car for excursion service while one of the ex-Santa Fe baggage cars will replace the current tool car that travels with the 765.

The remaining baggage cars will be used for a variety of functions that the Society did not disclose.

The Society said in a news release that the acquisitions “are the first big boost to our passenger fleet since it was originally sold off in the 1990s.”

The release noted that merchandise sales make up a considerable portion of Society revenues and help to cover the cost of insurance.

Does someone know the identity of these former Amtrak cars?

VinylRailfan · **Posted:** Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:07 pm

From some photos I found on Flickr here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/fan-t/48887639238/in/photostream/

The Baggage cars are all ex-AT&SF ACF built cars. Numbers 1252 (ex-3679), 1265 (ex-3671) and another car whose number I don't know.

The Diner is Budd built car 8551, the former CB&Q 194 "Silver Diner".

NS 3322 · **Posted:** Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:28 pm

VinylRailfan wrote:

From some photos I found on Flickr here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/fan-t/48887639238/in/photostream/

The Baggage cars are all ex-AT&SF ACF built cars. Numbers 1252 (ex-3679), 1265 (ex-3671) and another car whose number I don't know.

The Diner is Budd built car 8551, the former CB&Q 194 "Silver Diner".

Thank you!

Hopefully the identity of the third baggage car will be revealed.

nathansixchime · **Joined:** Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:03 pm **Posts:** 925

A curious "press release" indeed...

Amtrak No. 1252 (now RPCX 3679)
Amtrak No. 1261 (now RPCX 3669)
Amtrak No. 1265 (now RPCX 3671)
Amtrak Heritage diner 8551 (now RPCX 194)

NS 3322 · **Posted:** Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:41 am

nathansixchime wrote:

A curious "press release" indeed...

Amtrak No. 1252 (now RPCX 3679)
Amtrak No. 1261 (now RPCX 3669)
Amtrak No. 1265 (now RPCX 3671)
Amtrak Heritage diner 8551 (now RPCX 194)

Thank you Mr. Lynch!

PaulWWoodring · **Posted:** Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:07 pm

So, uh Kelly, you folks considering offering full dining car service on excursions eventually? Since Amtrak is going third-world on food service it could be an in-demand thing. Like the train in Pakistan that burned up last week because passengers were trying to cook their own meals in coach!

steamfan765 · **Joined:** Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:30 am **Posts:** 173

I have a question for Kelly. once you replace the tool car/crew car with the new one then what will happen with the old one no702 is that right? I have an idea to turn the old crew/tool car into a generator car to provide HEP for the train. Also I think that having several more passenger cars could help provide more revenue for FWRHS like friends of 261 in MN. Although that is more expense for them. I would like to see the SD9 run again with 765 on the road instead of modern ones.

I think the focus for the off season would be on 765, SD9, and the new cars and maybe the 624. of course plan more trips. I don't know that FWRHS wants to buy several BI-Levels I mean it would increase ridership with less cost but it won't provide that vintage look so it's a mixed bag but their are from 50s-70s so they can be vintage in their own right and some commute coaches. just a thought. also the price has to be right though of course.

Kelly keep doing what you're doing.

PaulWWoodring · **Posted:** Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:02 pm

steamfan765 wrote:

I have a question for Kelly. once you replace the tool car/crew car with the new one then what will happen with the old one no702 is that right? I have an idea to turn the old crew/tool car into a generator car to provide HEP for the train. Also I think that having several more passenger cars could help provide more revenue for FWRHS like friends of 261 in MN. Although that is more expense for them. I would like to see the SD9 run again with 765 on the road instead of modern ones.

I think the focus for the off season would be on 765, SD9, and the new cars and maybe the 624. of course plan more trips. I don't know that FWRHS wants to buy several BI-Levels I mean it would increase ridership with less cost but it won't provide that vintage look so it's a mixed bag but their are from 50s-70s so they can be vintage in their own right and some commute coaches. just a thought. also the price has to be right though of course.

Kelly keep doing what you're doing.

Something to consider as we're spending Ft. Wayne's money: 765's 1472 slip expires in early 2021, if my calculations are correct. So, we're looking at at least a year of down-time and the resulting overhaul expenses.

steamfan765 · **Joined:** Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:30 am **Posts:** 173

I think that if FWRHS would buy commuter bi-levels would be more cost effective for them if they want to go that route. They could find bi-levels from AT&SF, RI, C&NW, or i think SP had them and they could be built in 50s. They can make more revenue by leasing them out. If I was part of or running preservation group and need passenger equiptment I would get a baggage car for crew/tool car, another baggage for concessions on trips, and several coaches like 5-7 coaches that we could lease out to get some extra income. like I said bi-levels etc.

I'm not saying that FWRHS should buy passenger cars restore them and lease them out like friends of 261 I'm saying it's an option. I know that they have to prioritize and focus on the equipment that they have. If they want to possibly make some extra income they can go that route.

the question is it worth the expense? I don't know it all comes down to the numbers. it could be worth the expense and maybe not but i don't know.

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:42 pm

Most of the bilevel passenger cars that are readily "available"--primarily the ex-C&NW and BN gallery commuter cars--are an extremely poor fit for most excursion operations. A couple outfits have used some, primarily to pack in overflow crowds at events like Thomas and Polar Express, but otherwise they're not something you want to use regularly. To be fair, the same problem crops up with cars like the LIRR 3-and-2-seating commuter cars also used by some--the "sardine can" experience is detrimental to the experience.

The other class of bilevels, the Santa Fe hi-level cars that the Superliners are based on, have commanded premium prices in the latest clearance sales at Amtrak, with the Hoosier operation in Indiana buying up most of the fleet Amtrak just liquidated.

There have been several attempts at a "passenger car leasing cooperative" for excursions over the decades; none have really come to pass or survive.

Crescent-Zephyr · **Joined:** Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm **Posts:** 1497

PaulWWoodring wrote:

So, uh Kelly, you folks considering offering full dining car service on excursions eventually? Since Amtrak is going third-world on food service it could be an in-demand thing. Like the train in Pakistan that burned up last week because passengers were trying to cook their own meals in coach!

The first post in this thread says the dining car will be used for a gift shop and concessions.

Plenty of operations operate a nice dinner train if that's what you are looking for.

Crescent-Zephyr · **Joined:** Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm **Posts:** 1497

Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:

Most of the bilevel passenger cars that are readily "available"--primarily the ex-C&NW and BN gallery commuter cars--are an extremely poor fit for most excursion operations. A couple outfits have used some, primarily to pack in overflow crowds at events like Thomas and Polar Express, but otherwise they're not something you want to use regularly. To be fair, the same problem crops up with cars like the LIRR 3-and-2-seating commuter cars also used by some--the "sardine can" experience is detrimental to the experience.

Other than the IRM that uses the bi-levels properly, I don't think any organization should have them and I cringe when I see them thrown into a consist, especially behind steam. Imagine Strasburg using a string of bi-levels for their Thomas and Christmas events.... let's stay classy!

PaulWWoodring · **Posted:** Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:53 pm

Crescent-Zephyr wrote:

PaulWWoodring wrote:

So, uh Kelly, you folks considering offering full dining car service on excursions eventually? Since Amtrak is going third-world on food service it could be an in-demand thing. Like the train in Pakistan that burned up last week because passengers were trying to cook their own meals in coach!

The first post in this thread says the dining car will be used for a gift shop and concessions.

Plenty of operations operate a nice dinner train if that's what you are looking for.

I'm not looking for a "dinner train" experience. That is something very different from a traditional dining car experience, where you just go in, share a table with three other passengers at random, order off the menu (writing your own order out) and having a meal for an hour or so conversing with new acquaintances while the World rushes by. It's something we are quickly losing, and should become part of the preservation experience. It shouldn't necessarily only be for those who paid hundreds or thousands of bucks for a first-class ticket on the excursion.

Crescent-Zephyr · **Joined:** Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm **Posts:** 1497

PaulWWoodring wrote:

Crescent-Zephyr wrote:

PaulWWoodring wrote:

So, uh Kelly, you folks considering offering full dining car service on excursions eventually? Since Amtrak is going third-world on food service it could be an in-demand thing. Like the train in Pakistan that burned up last week because passengers were trying to cook their own meals in coach!

The first post in this thread says the dining car will be used for a gift shop and concessions.

Plenty of operations operate a nice dinner train if that's what you are looking for.

I'm not looking for a "dinner train" experience. That is something very different from a traditional dining car experience, where you just go in, share a table with three other passengers at random, order off the menu (writing your own order out) and having a meal for an hour or so conversing with new acquaintances while the World rushes by. It's something we are quickly losing, and should become part of the preservation experience. It shouldn't necessarily only be for those who paid hundreds or thousands of bucks for a first-class ticket on the excursion.

I recently rode the Silver Meteor with the new dining car service... I know all too well what you mean. But umm... I don't think that a car intended to be used for commissary / gift shop use will be the right car to do the job. ha.

PaulWWoodring · **Posted:** Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:05 pm

Diner 8551, as-purchased from Amtrak, is a standard 48 seat dining car with a complete kitchen, which is what I was going on.

FWRHS Purchases ex-Amtrak Cars

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