It is currently Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:19 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Summerdale Jct. Restaurant loco
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 1:44 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:17 pm
Posts: 519
Location: Scranton, PA
I'm almost certain this is the same loco, alive and well, part of the Shirrey (sp?) Estate in Geigertown.

http://www.steamlocomotive.info/vlocomo ... splay=1011

As an aside, I recently found a postcard of the Restaurant showing the engine and the interior of a dining (?) car. Anyone know what car that is/was?

Dave Crosby

_________________
Dave Crosby


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: OH, NO!!! AAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!!!!
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 3:43 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8864
Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
No only is that the same loco, the photo in question was taken at the old Summerdale Junction location, apparently shortly before it was moved.

Now where the heck is Geigertown?............ Ah, near Elverson, Pa. Now, will whoever goes looking for this lokie update me on one or two ex-Amtrak cars that were moved to the station beside the crossing on Main Street (Rt. 23) before the Reading line through town was ripped up?

OH, [expletive deleted]--the Geigertown locomotive is only a mile or two from the Monocacy Quarry!!!!!! AAAAAUUUUUGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 643/reboilering by Porter/third loco
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 4:57 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5328
John:

Well, surprisingly I found the reference to the steamers at Phoenix Steel. Not surprising that I still had it, but surprising that I found the storage box it was in! I will try to retype it as it originally appeared in William S. Young's old magazine STEAM LOCOMOTIVE & RAILROAD TRADITION (June 1961). So here goes:

"Harrisburg , Pa. A group of steam traction engine fans from Williams Grove, Pa., recently turned up three steam locomotives in storage at the Harrisburg plant of Phoenix Steel Company-and one is an ex-Pennsy B-4a 0-6-0. The B-4a's were spread far and wide by secondhand dealers about 40 years ago; that one still exists will come as a surprise to many students of Pennsy motive power. Through a salvage firm which is now dismantling the Phoenix plant, the Williams Grove Steam Engine Association has already obtained 0-4-0T No. 12 (Alco, 1927) for its property in Williams Grove. The group is raising money for the purchase of the B-4a, No. 5, through sale of stock certificates. Gone for scrap is the third engine, an oil-burning 0-6-0 (Porter # 7100, 12-1929; ex-Dupont Engineering Co., Wilmington, Del.)"

So there WAS a third engine, and from Mr. Young's report, it was apparently a tender engine; not a tank engine. It would be interesting to know just when Phoenix Steel (or its predecessors) purchased each of these locomotives. Or what else existed on the roster at one time, and when exactly each engine was purchased. These mysteries will probably always remain unanswered, as will why the decision was made to give #15 (PRR # 1643) a brand new boiler in 1945.

Les


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 643/reboilering by Porter/third loco
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 6:46 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:45 am
Posts: 1118
Location: Beaumont, Texas
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Now where the heck is Geigertown?............ Ah, near Elverson, Pa. Now, will whoever goes looking for this lokie update me on one or two ex-Amtrak cars that were moved to the station beside the crossing on Main Street (Rt. 23) before the Reading line through town was ripped up?

OH, [expletive deleted]--the Geigertown locomotive is only a mile or two from the Monocacy Quarry!!!!!! AAAAAUUUUUGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!


Les Beckman wrote:
"Harrisburg , Pa. A group of steam traction engine fans from Williams Grove, Pa., recently turned up three steam locomotives in storage at the Harrisburg plant of Phoenix Steel Company-and one is an ex-Pennsy B-4a 0-6-0. The B-4a's were spread far and wide by secondhand dealers about 40 years ago; that one still exists will come as a surprise to many students of Pennsy motive power. Through a salvage firm which is now dismantling the Phoenix plant, the Williams Grove Steam Engine Association has already obtained 0-4-0T No. 12 (Alco, 1927) for its property in Williams Grove. The group is raising money for the purchase of the B-4a, No. 5, through sale of stock certificates. Gone for scrap is the third engine, an oil-burning 0-6-0 (Porter # 7100, 12-1929; ex-Dupont Engineering Co., Wilmington, Del.)"

So there WAS a third engine, and from Mr. Young's report, it was apparently a tender engine; not a tank engine. It would be interesting to know just when Phoenix Steel (or its predecessors) purchased each of these locomotives. Or what else existed on the roster at one time, and when exactly each engine was purchased. These mysteries will probably always remain unanswered, as will why the decision was made to give #15 (PRR # 1643) a brand new boiler in 1945.

Les


OK, OK, both myself and steamlocomotive.info lists two locomotives at the David Shirey estate in Geigertown, PA.

steamlocomotive.info lists the one mentioned above as unknown owner; along with a second 0-4-0T once owned by Phoenixville Iron Co.; built by H.K. Porter; no other details or photographs.

I list two Phoenixville Iron Co. locomotives at the David Shirey estate as well; both H.K. Porter. One is three foot gauge 0-4-0T (the above mentioned locomotive, wrong guage?); the other a standard guage 0-6-0T (perhaps the third locomotive mentioned in Les' account, only it should be an 0-6-0?)

We both list a locomotive at Summerdale, PA; so it sounds like a duplicate entry. However, we both list the locomotive at Summerdale as being built by ALCO in 1927. It sounds like the 0-4-0T on the Shirey estate should be listed as built by ALCO in 1927 instead of H.K. Porter, number 12 (heads up, Doug Bailey.)

I will check the above against Conrad's directory; although it sounds like the move from Summerdale happened after the directory was published; and lack of details on the engines may have made matching entries difficult ... I have all three as matching Conrad's directory; and I am sure that is not true.

In addition to sorting out the situation with the Amtrak cars, could someone also help stort out once and for all the steam locomotives in the Shirey estate.

I also have a PA Power & Light fireless locomotive as owned by David Shirey in Hamburg. The details I have for this one; namely the builder's details (H.K. Porter/8190/1949) and number (2) are the ones steamlocomotive.info has listed for the locomotive at Blue Mountain & Reading; while I have different builder's details (H.K. Porter 7964/1945) number (7767) and wheel arrangement (0-4-0F as opposed to 0-6-0F) for the Blue Mountain locomotive. Is the Shirey Porter 0-6-0T locomotive I have listed at Geigertown really the same as the Porter 0-6-0F I also have listed at Hamburg with the correct details? Help....

Thank you in advance.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Project


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OH, NO!!! AAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!!!!
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 8:44 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3945
Location: Maine
There's a signpost up ahead. For Alexander Mitchell is about to enter the Twilight Zone.

_________________
"It's only impossible until it's done." -Nelson Mandela


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Same Locomotive.
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 9:58 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:57 am
Posts: 2378
Location: Faulkland, Delaware
Yes, both locmotives are indeed one in the same. The one listed at Geigertown was photographed by me as found sitting in the empty lot next to the remains of a demolished building overlooking Enola Yard. I then found the same old girl in Geigertown a couple of years later. I can't find a photo of here there but I am certain she is still there to this day.

_________________
Tom Gears
Wilmington, DE

If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: The Shirey Porters--or one, at least
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 11:29 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8864
Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
Quote:
I also have a PA Power & Light fireless locomotive as owned by David Shirey in Hamburg. The details I have for this one; namely the builder's details (H.K. Porter/8190/1949) and number (2) are the ones steamlocomotive.info has listed for the locomotive at Blue Mountain & Reading; while I have different builder's details (H.K. Porter 7964/1945) number (7767) and wheel arrangement (0-4-0F as opposed to 0-6-0F) for the Blue Mountain locomotive. Is the Shirey Porter 0-6-0T locomotive I have listed at Geigertown really the same as the Porter 0-6-0F I also have listed at Hamburg with the correct details? Help....


The Hamburg 0-6-0F (and yes, I did see it in the dead line in Hamburg years ago) is/was indeed PP&L Sunbury Steam Electric Station #2, Porter c/n 8190, built 1949. It was one of the last, if not the last, fireless steamers in operation, resurrected from the dead in 1988 to work that power plant (at Shamokin Dam, Pa.) after its ex-West Pittston & Exeter Alco S2 switcher died for the last time. One of the plant's two fireless switchers was sold to that BM&R guy and shipped locally (sent over Conrail to the Shamokin Valley, shoved over excepted/out-of-service track to the BM&R at Mt. Carmel Junction, and sent to Hamburg); the other was stuffed and mounted at the PP&L plant gate for several years. When PP&L sold the plant about 1996, they donated the loco to a group of local fans; last I heard it was still sitting out at the end-of-track of the "original" West Shore RR on the west side of Mifflinburg, Pa., on thoroughly out-of-service track.

I swear I've heard the number 7767 before as well, but 1) it doesn't match the third (coming from elsewhere) 0-4-0F that was scrapped at PP&L Sunbury ca. 1972 (that was Porter 7993, according to Conrad); 2) Conrad doesn't list a Porter 7767 preserved; and 3) it was common for many industries to number a loco for its c/n if there was nothing else for it to conflict with about. The Porter 7964 mentioned above was a mystery even to Conrad; I just skimmed through Pennsylvania and Md. in the 1967 "Steam Locomotive Directory" by Koenigsberg and came up empty......... and in that skim I come up with the Summerdale Jct. loco being sold ca. 1988, according to my notes........

........... so where the heck have I heard of a "7767" before?!?!?


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Oh, and back to Summerdale..........
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 11:36 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8864
Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
Under the assumption that Conrad may have copied incorrect data from Koenigsberg, I went and triple-checked the loco that ended up at Summerdale/Enola against an old article on the plant it (and PRR 643) came from.......

It was definitely a 1927 Alco, Central/Phoenix Iron & Steel 12. Skip all that "Porter" stuff.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Shirey Porters--or one, at least
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2006 11:04 am 
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:45 am
Posts: 1118
Location: Beaumont, Texas
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
I swear I've heard the number 7767 before as well, but 1) it doesn't match the third (coming from elsewhere) 0-4-0F that was scrapped at PP&L Sunbury ca. 1972 (that was Porter 7993, according to Conrad); 2) Conrad doesn't list a Porter 7767 preserved; and 3) it was common for many industries to number a loco for its c/n if there was nothing else for it to conflict with about. The Porter 7964 mentioned above was a mystery even to Conrad; I just skimmed through Pennsylvania and Md. in the 1967 "Steam Locomotive Directory" by Koenigsberg and came up empty......... and in that skim I come up with the Summerdale Jct. loco being sold ca. 1988, according to my notes........

........... so where the heck have I heard of a "7767" before?!?!?


Sandy;

The fireless steam locomotive at BM&R has 7767 painted on the cab sides. This picture was taken just last year:

Image

I also stand corrected; it is an 0-6-0F; not an 0-4-0F like I have listed.

So, is it the same as fireless #2, or is it different? Is this fireless the same engine as the 0-6-0T I have listed at Geigertown; and if not; WHAT is the 0-6-0T; is it the third Phoenixville Iron Co. engine? Still more questions than answers....

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Project


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Shirey Porters--or one, at least
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2006 12:04 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8864
Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
I KNEW I'd seen that number somewhere before. Thanks , now I can go sleep.

I have no idea who came up with the 7767 number or why. That is absolutely, positively, the former Sunbury Steam Electric Station power plant loco, either Porter 8189 or 8190--I know because I remember the builder's plates on both locos (on the lower front of the boiler, about where a number plate would be). These were literally my "hometown steamers."

As for Geigertown: your guess is as good as mine. Wanna go quarry-diving? <:-D


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OH, NO!!! AAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!!!!
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 10:40 am 

Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:23 pm
Posts: 1
As far as the cars that were at Elverson, One of the cars was sold to someone who had it moved up somewhere around Harleysville to make it part of a Inn. The one left behind at the station in Elverson (Ex PRR sleeper) stayed there for some years until the Fire Company who owned the property wanted it removed. The W&N rails were pulled up before that so it was landlocked. My understanding was that the owner would give the car away just to get it out of there. However, someone broke into it, set fire to the inside and it was then cut-up on site and scrapped. This occured in the early 90's
Bob Niblick


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OH, NO!!! AAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!!!!
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 10:07 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:15 pm
Posts: 160
Location: Lawrenceville, NJ
...been away from the 'net for a while ...missed talking about chooches with y'all.

Well anyway, 643 is a personal favorite. Congradulations to all at the WGHSEA in getting her running again!

Here is some more info to add to the pot. 643 was on the PRR roster between June 1901, when she was outshopped by the PRR Altoona Shops, and March 1917, when she was sold to the Central Iron & Steel Company. CI&S renumbered her as their #5 and she carried that number from then on (actually until about 1979).

After the steel mill closed in 1959, 0-4-0T 12 and 0-6-0 5 (643) were acquired by the WGHSEA. 5 (643) arrived on her own wheels via the now-gone Dillsburg branch of the PRR during the group's annual steam engine show in 1961. Through the 1960's and 70's she still carried the CI&S number 5 and was lettered for the WGHSEA's railroad, the "Williams Grove Steam Line". I believe it was around 1979 that she was once again painted and lettered as "Pennsylvania 643".

I can only speculate as well as why CI&S reboilered the engine in 1945. One thing to ponder is the fact that back then building a new boiler was not the "significant event" (read expense) that it is today. I'm sure H.K. Porter could have furnished a replacement without any trouble at a pretty reasonable cost. Perhaps the cost was in line with the cost of a GOOD used locomotive. In any event, I'm sure glad they did--we have another PRR steam locomotive around today because of it!

As others mentioned, 0-4-0T 12 is an ALCO (not a Porter) and she did see some use during the early days of the WGHSEA railroad. I believe it was during 1973 that 12 was trucked to the Summerdale Junction Restaurant for display.

And yes, 12 is now the property of Mr. Dave Shirey (not to be confused with his late son "DJ", who worked on the BM&R/R&N steam locomotives, and was killed in a tragic crane accident on the R&N). Mr. Shirey has a whole collection of railroad equipment and other steam-related equipment on his property along Geigertown Road at Geigertown, PA. The last time I spoke to him a couple years ago, he was trying to organize things into becoming the "Geigertown Central Railroad Museum". He has the 12 sitting right along the road in plain view. Needless to say, please respect private property and do not tresspass without permission.

In addition to the ex-CI&S 0-4-0T 12, he has a chunky little 3-foot gauge 0-4-0T (which IS a Porter) from the Phoenix Iron & Steel Co. Phoenixville, PA mill. Last time I saw it, it was up on cribbing. And yes, he also owns the ex-PP&L Porter 0-6-0 Fireless Cooker stored on the BM&R/R&N property at Hamburg, PA. He said he is looking to move it someday to Geigertown. It has been at Hamburg for many years--I recall hearing that back when the BM&R was running steam, they tried to (sort of) "charge" the cooker with steam from the 425 to operate it (I can't remember how successful they were). I believe Mr.Shirey said he owns 1 or 2 passenger car(s) stored at Hamburg as well. He also has at least a couple industrial diesel switchers at his place.

Regards,
Jim Robinson


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Mark Trebing, Reading 900 and 49 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: