Thanks for posting the link. I could not find it again after a quick search.

Considering the long reverse moves of their mainline trips I would probably reccomend a locomotive with a trailing truck. Otherwise the MEC 2-8-0 might be a logical choice.

Several of the engines on this list are no longer at Steamtown including 2816 and 5288. The 5288 is now at TVRM. TVRM has the cab cards on her and I am told that after the last overhaul all of the cards read stored out of service. If there was a possible replacement locomotive in the collection ideal for restoration it may have been this zero mileage engine.

I think they will have a hard time restoring another locomotive for the cost of maintaining the ones currently in service unless a much smaller one is chosen. With a running locomotive you can fix what needs to be repaired and run it until something else breaks or wears out. With a new engine you have to do everything.

John Bohon

I'd like to state my sincere debt of gratitude to those who founded RYPN, as well as those who maintain the site. It is without a doubt the premire site for intelligent conversation on railroading and preservation.

Tim, Superheater - thanks for your educated and well thought out perspectives. It's great to hear directly from the source.

Ross, no Steamtown debate would be complete without you.

A certain popular rail magazine stated that 2317 will be, as I called it, "stuffed and mounted". I was surprised to hear this based on my conversation with a park ranger about a year ago. Stuff and mounted basically implying cosmetically restored and displayed.

Can someone put the rumor of 2317's desmise to rest, officially?
It is entirely possible that the percieved maintenance required to get the engine back on the rails would be so time consuming that it would be as good as unservicable. Or it is possible that there was talk at some point of retiring the engine.

Regarding a personal observation, I will concur with Kevin and John that Steamtown is THE place to see a mainline steam excursion, as opposed to a more touristy type operation with smaller engines. Where else in the country can you go to see large steam run on mainline trackage on a somewhat routine schedule (maybe WMSR). And no engine better demonstrates that then a Pacific (though a Northern does come close).

It would seem pieces of info that have come my way would imply the future of Steamtown would be to have the Baldwin operate inexpensively in the yard keeping the public (and myself) entertained while the larger engines are on excursion. The switcher would be doing just what it was designed to do. My question regarding the restoration of #26 was just how much more would it have cost to restore an engine like the IC engine or even the Lackawanna engine? The implied answer is "more", but it seems that had an estimate been given to restore either, those numbers may have been less then what was in fact spent on the Baldwin. Of course, I'm sure the restoration cost of the Baldwin was far more then it's original estimate.

Moving along, I'd guess that the 2317 will be restored and become the most often used engine at Steamtown (requiring an extensive restoration along with it's 5 year). The 3254 will be stored servicable, available in a pinch. The B&M Pacific will be the other "natural" for excursions.

You would have your small switcher, two passenger engines of prefered wheel arrangement, one ran often while the other remains available for "special" service and you have the 3254 as back up.

I like the idea of visiting engines - so many operators are in need of a place to simply run their engines - seems a win - win. Steamtown could possibly even charge and profit from operators paying a fee for the trackage rights and facilities? I could envision engines such as the 765 or the 261 running for profit and making payments to Steamtown (as opposed to running on NJT lines or paying Amtrak). Corrections on my utopia welcome.

/Mitch

One of the issues associated with steam preservation that is NEVER discussed is what I will call "low hanging fruit"-that is, of the 1400 or so surviving steamers, the "easy" restorations are done. The long and difficult restoration of the K-4, complete with delays and "ugly surprises" will be the future of steam restoration, not the exception.

Two factors figure in the ability to make a locomotive easily restorable:

1.) It needs to have been built late enough to have enjoyed the best design and construction 2.) It needs to have been operated by a road that didn't/wouldn't/couldn't have seen it at the end of its service life as a fully depreciated, transitional asset where degraded service allowed minimal maintenance.

Berks, especial Nickel Plate engines (1225,765 running, 759 ran, could conceivably again, 763 in Mr. J's TLC, 757 once reportedly pursued by the R&N) ran relatively late into the steam era, but did not survive by getting bumped into drag/pusher/branch line/switching service as did some pacifics/mikes/consols so they really fit the bill-staying in fast freight service, the temptation to use bubble gum and bailing wire to keep maintenance expenses low until EMD could send GEEPS wasn't there. Also, the liabilities of superpower in switching meant that to survive, it had to earn its keep in the speed envelope in was designed to be efficient at, unlike the PRR's I's, which spent their final years in places like Enola.

No doubt, had more N&W steam survived, we would have found similar conditions among A's and J's. Although the Lehigh Valley ran through tortuous territory and wasn't note for its sophistication after the "original" Alexander Mitchell passed the scene, one wonders what condition its relatively young T series 4-8-4 Wyomings would have been found in-purchased as late as 1943, steam ended in 1951 on "the Valley". Had they been saved, a gem or two might have existed. The Milw 261 also fits the bill of a late model engine that never saw the indignities of deferred maintenance.

Of course the Strasburg 475 is the antithesis of this paradigm, but its restoration was “a somewhat unique endeavor by a somewhat unique enterprise”.

As it is, the conditions that make it mechanically feasible to restore an engine to operating condition are economic liabilities in the current environment.

CN 5288 (and CP 1293) operated in Canada where steam ran later and the transition wasn't as much of a waiting game by the time the Canadian roads called it quits.

So it is, the operating crews HATED to see those engines go, even if we knew they were headed to good homes. If there was one reform I'd make in the NPS, it would be to have park controller/CFO to ensure that when a trade is negotiated, it is reviewed by a dispassionate person who understands the concept of "fair market value". Before this is taken as an indictment of the NPS, let me make it clear, government at all levels has a real problem procuring and maintaining value. Without the concept of equity, fixed assets are just another list to keep up for government accountants and auditors.

With regard to CN 5288, My PERSONAL SPECULATION is that the NPS brass didn't want another sweeps week visit from some aging, uninformed, publicity hound with a bad mop (like the one from Sam Donaldson in the 1980's), who would raise fiscal he** about "Canadian engines" again. From what we understood, CP G-5's were really great engines, snappy and good pullers despite being light and nimble, but who needs the harassment of bloviating self-important, well never mind.

Any of the Consolidations in the collection would be great. However as its noted Eastbound trips are without a turn. There was some talk a good many years back about reinstalling the wye @ Tobyhanna, but the location of a propane plant there has cancelled that possibility. Moreover, a restoration might reveal unknown issues with their condition. They are all old (pre-1930), and K-4 issues might be present. Reading 2124 and NKP 759 don't make a lot of sense for 6 cars.

Personally, I like the lines of the 3713, but wonder how it'll be to take trains up the Pocono main on a wet October day. Some would like the CP2929 to be restored, but in addition to the fact that Canadian, it’s a special purpose machine, a hand-bombed 300 lb BP 80 (+?) drivered engine that has less than 30,000 pounds of TE

Given that the future of Steamtown seems to be a greater proportion of hotel hops and "up close and personal", I hope that some day CNJ 113 can come to visit and as much as I know they were probably treated with less than kid gloves,

If I had the means, I'd love to fund the Trap Rock 43 (a Vulcan, manufactured nearby) or the Lavino #3 tank engines. They’d be great on the caboose hop, which I wish was offered all the time and which would require a second switcher.

Steamtown could possibly even charge and profit from operators paying a fee for the trackage rights and facilities?


No. I can almost guarantee there are laws or regulations against such a thing.

Again Mr. Superheater is insightful and realistic. The realities of the Federal system being what they are, it is a minor miracle that Steamtown is still open and functioing,particularly when you factor in that its " Godfather"-Cong.Joe McDade is long retired from the scene.
Bottom line is that as limited as it is (from an operating steam perspective-i.e. no runbys,slow speed,stay in your car, etc.,etc.) it's as good as there is East of the Mississippi and at least it's open every day and in that relative trickle of visitors it gets, perhaps there's a future Graham or Bob Claytor who 50 yrs. from now will be a class 1 CEO and preside over a whole new mainline steam reviveal??
Stranger things have happenned!!!
In the interim, my read is that the current S'town "boss" Kip Hagen is a very decent guy who wants to do what he can within his VERY limited discretionary authority to increase visitorship and I would suggest that a " visiting guest locomotive" program be given serious thought.
R&N 4-6-2 # 425 is being seriously worked on (although IMHO it will not be done this fall-but it will be in service next spring,just my opinion??), is right "next door" and is a stout little puller that could handily take as many coaches as S'town could market up that hill with a heck of a show!!!
My bet is that R&N CEO Andy Muller would entertain a reasonable offer from S'town to let the 425 call Scranton "home" for a season or two to everyones benefit???
Ross Rowland