That "drift panel" idea is a good one. And, DuPont really had such a color as Pullman Green.
What's weird is that the same color made up by different manufacturers will weather differently.
That's where the trouble starts.

> Paint chips (or "drift panels" in
> the industry) are the best way to go. With
> the changing chemcial make up of paints old
> paint numbers often cannot be formulated;
> but a good dry sample can be matched. If you
> have a drift panel from a railroad company
> you take that in and get a match to the
> current paint formulations.

> A recomdendation is that if you have a paint
> mixed to a sample on a car, etc. that you
> make up your own "drift panels"
> and keep them in a dark file until you need
> to paint the same color again.

> Brian Norden


schwartzsj@juno.com

Brian Norden is correct; Santa Fe had its own unique "Pullman Greens." What I should have said is that DuPont supplied us with paint chips for Santa Fe's pre-war and post-war "Pullman Greens," as well as the UP chips.>

Santa Fe did not use the same green that the
> Pullman company did. Santa Fe green has more
> yellow in it than the Pullman color.
> Likewise the Union Pacific and the Southern
> Pacific had a slighty different olive green.
> Not all passenger car greens are
> "Pullman Green."

> Paint chips (or "drift panels" in
> the industry) are the best way to go. With
> the changing chemcial make up of paints old
> paint numbers often cannot be formulated;
> but a good dry sample can be matched. If you
> have a drift panel from a railroad company
> you take that in and get a match to the
> current paint formulations.

> A recomdendation is that if you have a paint
> mixed to a sample on a car, etc. that you
> make up your own "drift panels"
> and keep them in a dark file until you need
> to paint the same color again.

> Brian Norden


kornweib@mail.sdsu.edu

> What kind of experience do you
> have with this?

I've used Dulux, Centari ("yellow can"), Imron and other isocyanitic urethanes, other alkyd resins, and PPC color/clear coat. Over the years I've painted several diesels, a few steam engines, three or four Pullmans, and 8 or 10 electrics.

My paint of choice is Centari "in the yellow can" (acrylic enamel), with hardener, mainly because no expensive [epoxy] barrier coat is needed over the underlying layers of paint. It's also much easier to spray, unlike Imron.

Centari "in the green can" is a "low-grade" urethane, not as good a Imron (which itself isn't exactly top of the line).

The original Pullman Green formula contained yellow chromate, which is lead chromate. Since lead in paints is now such a serious no-no these days, you can't get good, durable greens or oranges (or non-bleedin yellows) anymore.

My second choice is the PPG color/clear coat system, but you have to be sure to get the clear coat which has to dry overnight. The fast-dry one dries into a very brittle surface which is *VERY* prone to chipping (right down to bare metal) when bumped even lightly with hard objects.

As for the durability of isocyanitic urethanes, even though this is the type of paint used on the space shuttle (Imron isn't), I've seen many Dulux paint jobs which have survived almost five times as long as the urethane replacements which covered them.

I've used Imron paint on a sleeper before. I can't tell you much about the duribility yet, but I can tell you it looks pretty darn good right now.

However I find the biggest drawback is it is extremely potient. That stuff can kill you. You have to pretty much put a space suit on with a separate air supply in a well ventilated area. It is also extremely hard on the skin. It took me months to get rid of a fairly bad skin condition on my hands caused by the paint. I've been told Centari is a preferred choice now days because it is much safer.

> The original Pullman Green formula contained
> yellow chromate, which is lead chromate.
> Since lead in paints is now such a serious
> no-no these days, you can't get good,
> durable greens or oranges (or non-bleedin
> yellows) anymore.

You are obviously an experienced painter (what outfit do you paint for?). How do you handle this problem of coverage with yellows (like a reefer) or fading/bleaching on greens?

> As for the durability of isocyanitic
> urethanes, even though this is the type of
> paint used on the space shuttle (Imron
> isn't), I've seen many Dulux paint jobs
> which have survived almost five times as
> long as the urethane replacements which
> covered them.

We used Dulux on the replica "NYC 4096" E-9 in 1986 (two-tone gray), and within four years, it was fading/chalking, and needed serious polishing/waxing. It seemed that the Dulux did not hold up to outdoor exposure, unless it was washed/waxed at least once a year.

hpincus@mindspring.com

> The original Pullman Green formula contained
> yellow chromate, which is lead chromate.
> Since lead in paints is now such a serious
> no-no these days, you can't get good,
> durable greens or oranges (or non-bleedin
> yellows) anymore.

Hmmmmmm. The gallon of Centari "UP yellow" I picked up a while back says right on the label "Contains lead". Yes, I was surprised to see this. Maybe this stuff will actually hold up. ;0)

btw-Anybody have a paint code for UP yellow, grey and red for DuPont paints? I had to have the paint store cross it from a PPG number they had in their books and it doesn't look quite right to me. Since it's just for trimming out pieces it's not a big deal for now.

> My second choice is the PPG color/clear coat
> system, but you have to be sure to get the
> clear coat which has to dry overnight. The
> fast-dry one dries into a very brittle
> surface which is *VERY* prone to chipping
> (right down to bare metal) when bumped even
> lightly with hard objects.

Way back when I did automotive painting, we used PPG base coat/clear coat almost exclusively. While it will cost you more, if you need to store the piece outside I would recommend it. The clear coat will help prevent fading due to UV.

Todd Jones
IRM Diesel Dept




milw104c@charter.net

> btw-Anybody have a paint code for UP yellow,
> grey and red for DuPont paints? I had to
> have the paint store cross it from a PPG
> number they had in their books and it
> doesn't look quite right to me. Since it's
> just for trimming out pieces it's not a big
> deal for now.

We have submitted paint chips and have received acceptable proofs back from Sherwin-Williams Automotive Finishes Corp. for UP yellow, red and gray for our "National" series sleeper. I am researching a contact name there. I believe that they are aware of this thread and may be able to chime in.

Orange Empire Ry Museum
wyld@sbcglobal.net