Is this Chinese QJ 2-10-2 on display in Germany? The caption writing is in German and the nearby 4-wheel diesel has buffers.

http://abpr2.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?june02/06-16-02/chinadampf24052002.jpg
ryarger@rypn.org

While on the China subject, anyone know about this rail museum in Mongolia? Looks like a Russian Alco in the foreground.

> Is this Chinese QJ 2-10-2 on display in
> Germany? The caption writing is in German
> and the nearby 4-wheel diesel has buffers.


http://abpr2.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?june02/06-16-02/TE2_on_display_Ulan_Bator_Mongolia_14May2002.jpg
ryarger@rypn.org

> Is this Chinese QJ 2-10-2 on display in
> Germany?

Yep. At the AUTO & TECHNIK MUSEUM Sinsheim, part of TECHNIK MUSEUM Speyer near Heidelberg. The Museum's Web site says it arrived in 1999.

eledbetter@rypn.org

> While on the China subject, anyone know
> about this rail museum in Mongolia? Looks
> like a Russian Alco in the foreground.

It is the outdoor museum at Dund Gol station, Ulan Bator, Mongolia. The steam locomotive is indeed a "Russian Decapod", Ye1-266 of 1917.

There are supposed to be two other "standard guage" locomotives, and a narrow guage locomotive. Perhaps they are out of sight somewhere.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a


Surviving World Steam Locomotives
james1@pernet.net

> While on the China subject, anyone know
> about this rail museum in Mongolia? Looks
> like a Russian Alco in the foreground.

Bob,

I'm sorry, we were obviously talking about two different locomotives. I of course was talking about the steam locomotive in the background.

The one in the foreground is a Russian made copy, a TE1, I believe. The ALCO built examples had two axle trucks; notice that the one in the picture has three axles. The picture below is of an original US-built version from ALCo World. It was taken in Turkmenistan (Karakum desert) in the late 40s or early 50s.

It is quite neat that in a museum in Mongolia, one will find a copy of a US-built diesel AND a US-built steam locomotive as well. To the best o my knowledge, Russia did not build any copies of the "Russian Decapods", but of course we supplied more of them during WWII.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

ALCo World - The Russian RSD1 copies

james1@pernet.net

Very cool!

I just finished an HO scale kitbash of a USRA Russian right after the war. I mentioend this on RYPN awhile back. Hopefully, y'all will see it in print, soon.

It's also evidence of the many nice connections RYPN has helped me make. Kurt Bell, among others, really opened doors to make the project happen.

Online pictures got me thinking about tackling a Russian-lettered model.

Wanna see some real ones? Try this link:

http://parovoz.com/gallery/pict-steam-e.html

> It is the outdoor museum at Dund Gol
> station, Ulan Bator, Mongolia. The steam
> locomotive is indeed a "Russian
> Decapod", Ye1-266 of 1917.

> There are supposed to be two other
> "standard guage" locomotives, and
> a narrow guage locomotive. Perhaps they are
> out of sight somewhere.

> -James Hefner
> Hebrews 10:20a


Ahead of the Torch
trains@robertjohndavis.com

This picture is from the Steam Locomotive Gallery photo section of the "Steam Engine Joseph Stalin" website.

From left to right, the steam locomotives are:

* 2-10-0 "Russian Decapod" Ye1-266
* 2-6-2 S-116 (actually Su208-88, built in 1925)
* 4-8-4 P36-228, built by Kolomna in 1956.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

http://www.parovoz.com/gallery/El-0266+S-116-dundg
james1@pernet.net

Didn't china build a bunch of copies of the "Russian" decapods later on? I want to say they were called Y class, though I can't recall with any clarity. (I recall a rumor that this may have been the most coppeid and produced single steam locomotive design in history.)

Sincerely,
David Ackerman


david_ackerman@yahoo.com

> Didn't china build a bunch of copies of the
> "Russian" decapods later on? I
> want to say they were called Y class, though
> I can't recall with any clarity. (I recall a
> rumor that this may have been the most
> coppeid and produced single steam locomotive
> design in history.)

Here is where I miss Michael Powell's old China Railways website. He had all of the Chinese classes of steam locomotives listed.

I don't recall the Chinese building copies of Russian Decapods. A few reguaged examples, along with a few of the FD class, were imported into China. Some Russian Decapods were also sent to North Korea; where they were photographed as recently as the 1990s. Here in North America, where even the USRA designs did not catch on everywhere, the "Russian Decapods" were probably the largest single class of steam locomotives built, between WWI and WWII.

China Railway's QJ class 2-10-2s were designed with help from the Soviet Union. You can see their resemblance to the Soviet "FD" class.
The Chinese also had several Romanian-built copies of the German 52 class ("Kriegslok") locomotives. One of these is in the museum at Sujiatun. It was the DK5 class.

To me, the German "Kreigslok" was one of most widely built and used designs ever. The various factories under Nazi control built 6,000 of them during World War II. During and after the war, they were found throughout all of Europe. The Russians captured them by the hundreds. Some were kept standard (European) guage, while others were reguaged to the Soviet standard of 5' 0"; and many remain in Russia today. They sent some of them to Vietnam, where they were too heavy for the trackwork and continue to rot there today.

I believe the Polish also built modified copies after the war as well. Some have also been imported to the UK for tourist railways.

The only locomotives that saw wider use was the "MacArthur" 2-8-2; I believe it or variations of it made it to every continent except maybe South America.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Locomotives
james1@pernet.net

When you talk about the 2-8-2 "MacArthur," (I'm rather more used to Mikado, personaly,) do you mean a particulair class of Mikes, or the wheel arangement? When I said that I'd heard the Russian Decapod was the most coppied loco, I was meaning that particulair boiler/class. As far as wheel arrangent, I'd always heard the good old 0-8-0 was the commonest modern wheel arrangement in the U.S. the 2-8-0 the commonest with a lead truck of some type, and the 2-8-2 the commonest with a trailing truck. Given the comparative abnormalirty of trailing trucks on locomotives outside the U.S. I would be surprised indeed to find that Mikados outnumber Consolidations, eight coupleds, or even American Standards, all of which were popular main line locomotives outside the U.S. in the twentieth century, (even though we saw them as fit only for light duty of one type or the other.) I'm currious now. I've not seen firm stats on anything outside the U.S. so I'm thinking purely in terms of speculation, of course, and what were popular classes, mainly in Europe.

Sincerely,
David Ackerman

david_ackerman@yahoo.com

David,

I am sorry about the confusion, I was also referring to classes. The "MacArthurs" I was referring to were the narrow-guage 2-8-2s built for the USATC during WWII.

Some of them were guaged for 3ft, and sent to the WP&Y in Alaska. Meter guage examples went to Burma, Egypt, Ethiopia, Greece, Iraq, India, and Portugal; probably other countries as well. The AC16 class, which was a MacArthur built to 3ft 6in guage along with a few other minor changes, were built for the railways in Australia.

Both the decapod and 2-10-2 wheel arrangements were more popular in Europe and Asia than they were here because of their lighter wheel loading. The class with the most examples ever built was the L class 2-10-0 in the former Soviet Union; I don't remember how many, but I want to say it was around 10,000.

I believe your comments about wheel arrangements here in North America are correct. Worldwide, I am not sure outside of 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 which wheel arrangements were the most popular; my database of survivors is not a good index, since it is skewed by the large number of surviving QJ 2-10-2s in China and various classes in strategic reserves in Russia.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Locomotives
james1@pernet.net

Is the L class related to the "Russian" 2-10-0 under discussion here, or a completely different class?

Sincerely,
David Ackerman

david_ackerman@yahoo.com

> Is the L class related to the
> "Russian" 2-10-0 under discussion
> here, or a completely different class?

> Sincerely,
> David Ackerman

It is a completely different class; built by various factories in various countries in the former Soviet Union.

The USSR Railway Picture Gallery - Steam Locomotives at http://www.parovoz.com/gallery/pict-steam-e.html is a treasure trove of Soviet steam locomotive photographs. There are several pictures of "Russian Decopods" (YEa) and just above every major class built during the 20th century; including the "A. Andreev" 4-14-4. (No, that is NOT a typo; they only built one because for some strange reason, it kept trying to break rails and straighten out curves!)

I linked to one of the "L" pictures below; but there are lots of others in the picture gallery. It bears a passing resemblance to a "Russian Decapod", but it is completely different class.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

USSR Railway Picture Gallery - Steam Locomotives

james1@pernet.net