RE: the Flimsies piece below concerning the proposed South Shore line museum project. Many of the old South Shore cars have survived, but could they still operate on home rails on special occasion? Is the voltage, hardware, etc. the same, or were things changed with the coming of the new cars?

http://www.thetimesonline.com/articles/2003/01/14/news/top_news/ce5be605de30944e86256cae000e7500.txt
ryarger@rypn.org

> RE: the Flimsies piece below concerning the
> proposed South Shore line museum project.
> Many of the old South Shore cars have
> survived, but could they still operate on
> home rails on special occasion? Is the
> voltage, hardware, etc. the same, or were
> things changed with the coming of the new
> cars?

As far as I know there would be no problem with them operating on home rails - line car 1100 hasn't been significantly changed, for example, and the transition from the old orange cars to the Sumitomo cars was gradual. That being said, I would worry that a lot of people still remember the 1970's wreck at 27th Street on the IC, where a train of new lightweight "Highliners" was absolutely devastated in a collision with the older, MUCH heavier 1920's steel MU cars.

Frank Hicks

fullparallel@wideopenwest.com

While it is true that there are a number of Park Service cars at various 600V museums, I suspect that the collection of equipment destined for this proposed operation is the Bob Harris equipment - some of which has a lamentable preservation history, all of which is scattered across Indiana. None of them have been converted from 1200V TMK.

IIRC - the conversion requires changing the M-G set to have a supply of low voltage and live batteries, and the armature on the air compressor, or the whole air compressor. With no need to approach 85 MPH, the motors are fine running on half voltage. A conscientious museum would keep the parts to make the conversion reversible, but who knows.

> RE: the Flimsies piece below concerning the
> proposed South Shore line museum project.
> Many of the old South Shore cars have
> survived, but could they still operate on
> home rails on special occasion? Is the
> voltage, hardware, etc. the same, or were
> things changed with the coming of the new
> cars?

> While it is true that there are a number of
> Park Service cars at various 600V museums, I
> suspect that the collection of equipment
> destined for this proposed operation is the
> Bob Harris equipment - some of which has a
> lamentable preservation history, all of
> which is scattered across Indiana. None of
> them have been converted from 1200V TMK.

I think you're right that the equipment in question is the Bob Harris collection, although some of the NPS cars might also be thrown in with this plan. Also, the South Shore was 1500v, not 1200v.

> IIRC - the conversion requires changing the
> M-G set to have a supply of low voltage and
> live batteries, and the armature on the air
> compressor, or the whole air compressor.
> With no need to approach 85 MPH, the motors
> are fine running on half voltage. A
> conscientious museum would keep the parts to
> make the conversion reversible, but who
> knows.

Where running on 600v is concerned, there are different ways of doing it. Changing the MG set is most desirable, though I believe only possible if you have an MG wired correctly. The IC had some MG sets wired just right; I think IRM has one for use on a South Shore car for this purpose. CSS&SB 34 at IRM uses a different method, running the batteries off of the air compressor (which has been replaced with a 600v version). This method works, although not incredibly well. I think that the East Troy cars had everything except for control taken off the battery circuit and made straight 600v (this includes lights, possibly heat [not sure] and maybe a couple of other things), but I don't know how they got the control system working on 600v.

Frank Hicks

fullparallel@wideopenwest.com

The South Shore's electrification was changed from 6,600V AC to 1,500V DC around 1926 after Samuel Insull purchased the system, to allow the cars to share tracks with the Illinois Central tracks in Chicago. Although the Nippon Sharyo cars of the 1980s apparently have the hardware, etc. for operation on another system or can have it installed in short order, it appears NICTD still runs the South Shore on 1500V DC.

Another article from June 2002 at http://www.chestertontribune.com/Northw ... for_so.htm indicates that the catenary and the 75-year-old wire car are both to be replaced shortly.

The Shore Line Interurban Historical Society maintains an excellent website at http://www.shore-line.org/ShoreLine/index.html

Meanwhile, I will note that although I know nothing about the proposed museum except what is in the article, I have been to the Lake County Indiana Visitors Center, which I found to be perhaps the most impressive, awesome, and helpful visitors center I have ever been in nationwide (and that was BEFORE I saw the South Shore poster art exhibit in the gallery adjacent!!!). If the same brains are behind the proposed museum as were the Lake County Visitors Center, I have VERY high hopes for whatever their pie-in-the-sky proposals might be. (Although I have just e-mailed a couple Chicagoland rail experts for any inside dirt on either place, just in the interests of fairness......)

Official NICTD History
lner4472@bcpl.net

> I think you're right that the equipment in
> question is the Bob Harris collection,
> although some of the NPS cars might also be
> thrown in with this plan. Also, the South
> Shore was 1500v, not 1200v.

> Where running on 600v is concerned, there
> are different ways of doing it. Changing the
> MG set is most desirable, though I believe
> only possible if you have an MG wired
> correctly. The IC had some MG sets wired
> just right; I think IRM has one for use on a
> South Shore car for this purpose. CSS&SB
> 34 at IRM uses a different method, running
> the batteries off of the air compressor
> (which has been replaced with a 600v
> version). This method works, although not
> incredibly well. I think that the East Troy
> cars had everything except for control taken
> off the battery circuit and made straight
> 600v (this includes lights, possibly heat
> [not sure] and maybe a couple of other
> things), but I don't know how they got the
> control system working on 600v.

> Frank Hicks

The control systems on all the South Shore cars at East Troy run on 32 volts DC supplied by the batteries. In the case of the two diners, the batteries are charged by 600 volt mgs The other coaches use resistors to charge the batteries. Car lights are 600 volts and the headlights are 32 volts from the battery circuit, just like when the South Shore ran them. In addition, all of the cars have 600 volt air compressors.

East Troy Electric Railroad
jftrolley@aol.com