Typical, "typical" question

David M. Wilkins · **Posted:** Tue Jul 15, 2003 2:05 pm

Someone asked me the other day what a "typical" C&NW bi-level commuter train of the 1960s would have consisted of. Since Chicago commuter trains are not my speciality, I thought I would shop for answers here. The person wanted to know what kind of locomotives, (my guess would be one or two F-7s or GP-7s) and 3 to 5 cars, including the cab car. Any better ideas?

david.wilkins@inisightbb.com

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Tue Jul 15, 2003 2:28 pm

Ask the Illinois Railway Museum--they got one.

Your speculation is right on the money--either Geeps or F-units and a set of 1950's bilevels.

Incidentially, a whole bunch of the 1950s C&NW bilevels are sitting in Joliet, Ill. awaiting refurbishing and/or resale. Contact me if you need a contact for purchase. (The shop switcher is an E9, and the same place has Amtrak F40PH's and a couple E8s for sale as well.)

LNER4472@bcpl.net

ge13031 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 15, 2003 2:48 pm

> Ask the Illinois Railway Museum--they got
> one.

I was just watching them go by on the webcam over the weekend ...pulled by the Amtrak F(?)

lamontdc@adelphia.net

John Craft · **Posted:** Tue Jul 15, 2003 3:53 pm

> Someone asked me the other day what a
> "typical" C&NW bi-level
> commuter train of the 1960s would have
> consisted of.

There was an article some time back in Trains about how C&NW completely overhauled Chicago commuter service from hand-me-down, steam-heated day coaches to bespoke bilevels. If someone can pinpoint the issue I'll be happy to get you a photocopy of it.

JAC

T.J. Gaffney · **Posted:** Tue Jul 15, 2003 5:04 pm

> There was an article some time back in
> Trains about how C&NW completely
> overhauled Chicago commuter service from
> hand-me-down, steam-heated day coaches to
> bespoke bilevels. If someone can pinpoint
> the issue I'll be happy to get you a
> photocopy of it.

> JAC

Would it be "case for the Caationary Commuters?" Article in October 1983 Trains? Pair of Bilevels on the cover from METRA....

TJ

Norwalk, Ohio Depots

tjgaffney@phmuseum.org

David M. Wilkins · **Posted:** Wed Jul 16, 2003 8:29 am

I believe this person was inquiring about the beginnings of the bi-levle era.

david.wilkins@inisightbb.com

Peter Nicholson · **Posted:** Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:14 pm

> Someone asked me the other day what a
> "typical" C&NW bi-level
> commuter train of the 1960s would have
> consisted of.

I've ridden the C&NW and successors since the 1950s. A "typical" train in the 1960s would be:

Non-rush hour: One F7 and two bi-levels (one a push-pull cab car)
Rush hour: One F7 or E8 and three to eleven cars, depending on the train. Long trains might have two or three additional cab cars scattered throughout.

A couple of notable exceptions: 5:10 p.m. Milwaukee Division train ("club run") had four single-level coaches owned by various commuter clubs along with seven bi-levels. And one of the longer Galena Division trains had a B-unit to go with its F7.

The first TRAINS article on the subject I am aware of was by J. Parker Lamb in the August 1960 issue. (C&NW ordered 116 bi-levels in January of that year to complete the re-equipping of its suburban service - 84 cars from earlier orders rounded out the fleet of 200.)

pnichol6@prodigy.net

Frank Hicks · **Posted:** Thu Jul 17, 2003 1:26 am

> I was just watching them go by on the webcam
> over the weekend ...pulled by the Amtrak
> F(?)

That's probably one of our two C&NW F7's that are still in Metra blue. There are plans to get at least one of them painted in C&NW yellow and green to make a complete matched train.

Frank Hicks

Preserved North American Electric Railway Cars
fullparallel@wideopenwest.com