Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars

pullmanologist · **Joined:** Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:20 am **Posts:** 25

Here is an update on the Heavyweight Pullman cars at harlansburg Station. The JAMES FENIMORE COOPER was scrapped the week of July 13th. The purchaser of the car sent his employees to look at the car for potentially saving the trucks and couplers/draftgear and they told him that nothing was worth saving so he saw it as being of no value and sold it to the scrapper. A case in point of NO ONE seeing the value in all of the pieces and parts of a heavyweight Pullman or any value in putting it back into service as some type of passenger carrying car - even if not fully restored. The JFC could have easily made a 54 seat car with huge restrooms if the remaining Pullman accommodations had all been removed. It was a good shell with good trucks - admittedly it needed repair but so so most out of service cars do at this late date. Another point to be made is the loss of all of the parts that are valuable for cars that are being restored. We tried to buy the car for the parts or perhaps to even save the shell but the answer we got was "talk the the scrapper" who wouldn't answer or return calls. I believe the car also had brass window sash. Colebrookdale Railroad did save the 2411 trucks and the couplers/draftgear but there were a lot of excellent absolutely irreplaceable parts that went to the scrap yard to get 13 cents a pound. Colebrookdale needed a Women's Toilet Annex exterior fan for the restoration of the WOODLAND. There was a perfect one on the JFC that was sent to the scrapyard. When are these people that are supposedly in support of rail passenger car restoration going to wake up to the value of these parts! One day it is going to be impossible to complete the restoration of a heavyweight Pullman car because all of the cars that would have had parts to accomplish the task will have been sent to the scrap yard.

The WHITE CLOUD is in the process of being parted out - primarily toward the restoration of the COUNTRY CLUB so the parts are going to a good cause. The trucks will also be saved as will most every other part imaginable for other restorations. The shell of the car is in the worst shape of any surviving car I have ever seen. The roof had leaked for decades and as such the deterioration was from end to end and top to bottom on the sied of the car that was next to the open shed. The floor was pretty much nonexistant. Chip board had to be put down to walk in the car to harvest parts! The car has revealed details about Pullman's A/C conversion from 1936 that are most interesting - particularly how much wood was put into the roof during the conversion. I have quite a few pictures if anyone is interested.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Tue Aug 11, 2026 10:14 pm

Update:

On Friday, October 22nd, 2021, 6th Post on Page #45, Rainier Rails wrote:

115. Marco Polo (Lot #6037, Plan #3972, 1927, pvt. car)--sold to CofG as the Savannah (1944) to SOU via merger (1963) later leased to the Choo Choo Hotel in Chattanooga (1970's?) later removed and restored (1980's) to NS via merger as #30 (1982) parked at Washington Union Station as an on-site venue for entertaining dignitaries/VIP's (19??) removed a few years ago at the behest of Amtrak and moved to Altoona for evaluation, then placed on permanent loan to the Southeastern RY Museum, Duluth, GA

As many likely saw, this car is no longer at the museum in Duluth, as it was used as the rearmost car in the NS portion of the consist for the #4014 coast-to-coast trip this summer. I can't think of a better car to use for such an event, IMHO. Will be interesting to see if it goes back to display at the museum, or if it will join the rest of the executive fleet at Altoona.

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Wed Aug 12, 2026 12:30 am

Rainier Rails wrote:

Will be interesting to see if it goes back to display at the museum, or if it will join the rest of the executive fleet at Altoona.

It's been spotted by several social media posters en route back to the Museum:

https://www.facebook.com/reel/888965727266083

PMC · **Joined:** Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm **Posts:** 2897

Rainier Rails wrote:

Update:

181. Central Plateau (Lot #4971, Plan #3959/E, 1926, 3C-2DR-lng-obs, NYC)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to BRC and modified to safety instruction car #1891 (1954) to Don Heimberger (date?) to Ted Lemen (date?) to Ms. J. Howe (Lincoln, IL) (date?) to Frederick Seibold #800220 (Sadorus, IL) (date?) stored on the Decatur Junction RY (Cisco, IL)

As posted in the Surviving Passenger Cars in the United States group on Facebook, this car was resold in 2025 to an unknown party, reportedly somewhere in Ohio, no further details at this time.

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

4. Surviving Passenger Cars in the United States group on Facebook

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Here it was in October 2025, still in Cisco IL, Rob Brown photos (not sure why he didn't get out of his vehicle). The photographer also reported that the movers said it was going "somewhere in Ohio":

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Mon Aug 17, 2026 7:54 pm

Update:

158. Norfolk County (Lot #4998, Plan #3521A/G, 1926, 10S-lng-obs, ex-Mt. Wood, N&W)--retained (12/31/1948)--to Chapman S. Root (5/1968) to William O. Savage (date?) to Alfred K. Nippert (date?) to Indiana RY Museum (date?)

As reported in Facebook groups, this car has been acquired by the Colebrookdale RR.

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Tim Moriarty · **Joined:** Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:25 pm **Posts:** 374

Quote:

After speaking with a resident of Ashland, VA, who is very knowledgeable with this car, back in April, this car has now been identified as:

484. Mt. Foraker (Lot #4742, Plan #3521, 1923, 10S-lng-obs, C&NW)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to FtDDM&S (1954) sold at unknown date to Heritage Savings & Loan (Richmond, VA) bank closed circa 1990-1991 and subsequently sold to restaurant (Oilville, VA) sold circa 2000 to Field Day of the Past (Wingmead, VA)

While the steam tractor meet known as Field Day of the Past is no longer occurring, the car is still in situ on the property in Wingmead, and the property owner is very cooperative as far as any efforts that may yet result in the car's continued use/existence, either while still on said property or a potential move elsewhere. The individual I talked to is in communication with the landowner, and has also worked over the last several years to formulate a plan for the car.

And no, I asked, and they do not think that this car was the car located at Herman H. Kennickell Jr.'s Pullman Palace, so either that is indeed another Plan #2521/#3521 car, or there was some confusion in the past regarding prior sale listings for the Mt. Foraker. Interestingly, there is a listing of a sale of a lightweight Plan #4066B 12DXSB-5DB sleeper from the PRR to Kennickell, the #8035 James Hay Reed (ex-Moor Brook).

As for how a car sold to a shortline in Iowa ended up instead in the Richmond area, I haven't a clue, and neither does the local resident, but I do have an idea, further research required.

The Mount Foraker is no longer on the property where Field Day of the Past was held. This is confirmed by recent Google Earth images as well as a visit to the site today. Employees at a nearby gas station confirm the car left about a year ago via heavy truck but no one knows where it went. Does anyone have an update on this one's present location?

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Mon Oct 26, 2026 1:51 am

I have made attempts to get in touch with some local contacts who would very much know where the car went; need to make a further attempt.