> I guess I am spoiled, having done well more
> than 30mph behind 2317 and 261 on the
> DL&W. ;-)

East of Moscow the tt limit is higher. I'm sure that east of MP 120 it was opened up a bit.

> Here's my point... we need to think out of
> the box. There are plenty of rides that do
> the 20mph and under ride very, very well. In
> fact, I never tire of them.

> However, Steamtown has the physical plant to
> operate in as mainline and safe a manner as
> steam ever did. I know we are dealing with
> old machines, but darn it, let them work as
> they were intended.

The problem is risk and return. Speed causes risk to rise exponentially-ticket revenue doesn't increase like that because of speed. Physical plant isn't the core issue, its $$$ and specialty parts.

> My wife didn't "get" steam until
> she watched Ross put #614 through her paces
> at Port Jervis. That's what the
> "lay" public needs to see.

Not to be adversarial, but the 614 sits awaiting something like several hundred thousand of work and it is a late 40's roller bearing on roller bearing state of the art machine.

Yes something different needs to be done- and an operating steamer is its own best billboard-but running fast isn't going to be much of a help.

MHO, based upon years of being there.



superheater@rrmail.com

Jon Schneider wrote (snipped):
> 100 million dollars of liability?
> Is that in case the entire train plunges off
> a ravine all the way into hell and is never
> seen again?

Maybe they took literally that stupid earthquake movie that NBC had the other week. They had that seen where the crack opened up for miles behind the train and then swallowed the Amtrak train. Of course it stopped as soon as the train disappeared.

I could ask what's worse: bad acting, a bad script or a bad plot to begin with but that would be getting way off topic.

Matthew Mummert

mlmummert@suscom.net

> MHO, based upon years of being there.

What's enjoyable about kicking these ideas are around is that we both apparently have years of being there. Mine were just earlier, and I still hold on to the promise of what could be.

> (1.) Never let the facts get in the way of a
> good story/headline/etc.

> (2.) If it's in print, it must be the truth.

> (3.) If there is an error of fact or
> analyses, refer to Rule 2.

Bear in mind that the following are coming from a member of "The Press." The paper I work for is a small, community twice-weekly, but still a newspaper:

"If there's a way to screw up the facts and look like an idiot, a news reporter will find it."

"Long live freedom of the pest... er, press."

mconrad@msmgmt.com

> "If there's a way to screw up the facts
> and look like an idiot, a news reporter will
> find it."

Over the years, working both sides of the street (media and media relations), I have found members of the media particularly ill-equipped to handle rail-related stories. They just don't get it.

I also have found them particularly bad with numbers. Shucks, you can get a journalism degree without taking a college level math or stat course. In fact, that is one of the reasons many folks major in journalism!

War Tale: While working as a PIO for a local sheriff's department, I recall trying to explain a grade crossing accident to a sweet, young, well-coiffed reporterette. I nearly lost it when she asked, "Well, why didn't the engineer step on the brakes faster?" Ho Boy! Where do you start with that one?

Worser, she later worked for NBC for a while!


Production Services Website

> War Tale: While working as a PIO for a local
> sheriff's department, I recall trying to
> explain a grade crossing accident to a
> sweet, young, well-coiffed reporterette. I
> nearly lost it when she asked, "Well,
> why didn't the engineer step on the brakes
> faster?" Ho Boy! Where do you start
> with that one?

> Worser, she later worked for NBC for a
> while!

Worser still: the reaction of the average person on the street that an emergency application while applying the most brake force- has potential for damaged due to the uncontrolled nature of the application and the more pronounced train forces!

But of course locked wheels sliding and sparking on the rails is the best way to stop a train



superheater@rrmail.com

> What's enjoyable about kicking these ideas
> are around is that we both apparently have
> years of being there. Mine were just
> earlier, and I still hold on to the promise
> of what could be.

Where do that EL dining car group fit into the picture? Aren't they supposed to be in Scranton? I would think a heavyweight diner would be a winner in a Steamtown train.

mpa55@premo.com

Perhaps Mike Stuy of ELDCPS will chime in with the definitive word, but my understanding is that their cars are housed (note: no public right of access) at D-L's Scranton yard, not on Steamtown's property.

I'm sure ELDCPS would not be averse to working with either D-L or Steamtown or both, but D-L is their landlord.



eledbetter@rypn.org

Erik (and all):

We are partnered with the D-L to operate our equipment. David Monte Verde and the D-L people have been great hosts and supporters of our project. Lackawanna County has also provided great support.

We did have the diner (EL 741, ex-Erie 941, Pullman 1925) and display at Steamtown's Railexpo in 2002. We are certainly willing to work with Steamtown if they have an interest. I have always believed that dining car operations are one of the most interesting stories in railroading, highlighting the human aspect.

Tim Stuy (Mike?)
Secretary - ELDCPS

Erie Lackawanna Dining Car Preservation Society
tstuy@nospam-eldcps.org

Sorry, Tim!

> Tim Stuy (Mike?)
> Secretary - ELDCPS


eledbetter@rypn.org

> Over the years, working both sides of the
> street (media and media relations), I have
> found members of the media particularly
> ill-equipped to handle rail-related stories.
> They just don't get it.

> I also have found them particularly bad with
> numbers. Shucks, you can get a journalism
> degree without taking a college level math
> or stat course. In fact, that is one of the
> reasons many folks major in journalism!

I have to admit that I've had to cover stories that are wa-a-a-a-a-ay out of my element. Just this weekend I had to cover a local health fair. The resulting story was hardly my best work and probably struck the coordinator of the health fair the way a lot of rail stories have struck me -- bad and inaccurate.

To be fair, we in the media have to cover an awful lot of stories, with limited time to research each one. The health fair story, for example, would have been a lot better if I had been able to take my time, participate in some of the screenings, talk to more than the three people I interviewed, and then do additional research as I wrote the story. I simply didn't have time for that. The interviews took a total of about 20 minutes and I spent maybe fifteen more doing the actual writing. Then it got pasted into the paper and sent to the printer. That's just not enough time to do a story justice.

Nobody in this office deliberately tries to get things wrong. Nobody here is really stupid, either, although we all do occasionally come across that way in print. In those respects, I don't think we're all that different from other newsrooms. But we also don't know every subject in depth. The two funnies I posted earlier are actually half-serious. Because the people who make up "The Media" can't know all subjects, when you're dealing with something obscure like railroads (and where news is concerned, railroads are obscure), you need to remember that the reporters are probably ignorant of the subject and treat them accordingly.

mconrad@msmgmt.com

I hate to say this while we are media bashing but "worser" is NOT a word.

bad, worse, worst
good, better, best

Sorry, I had to throw that one out especially since the thread continued using that one.

Matthew Mummert

mlmummert@suscom.net

> I hate to say this while we are media
> bashing but "worser" is NOT a
> word.

> Matthew Mummert

Matt:

I use that word to pay homage to one of my best, but sadly, departed friends -- Willis B. Miller. Willis (no relation) was a former ALCO Products EE; followed that 4-cycle world with a stint at EMD as a Service Engineer and Tech Rep; then went to BHM Locomotive; Martin Marrietta Missle Systems; Precision National; to short line management (West Tennessee and TennKen); and finally helped keep the ALCOs alive at the Louisville, New Albany & Corydon.

He forgot more railroading than I will ever know. He stepped up and help bring order and give direction to my PhD dissertation. We worked on a couple of movies together including Fair Game, Under Siege II, and Courage Under Fire. He fixed my elderly mother's water heater one night not long after my father died.

When things were really in the tank, as they frequently were in our professional lives, he would fire up a wry smile and say with great authority, "I don't think it can get any worser than this."

I assume Willis is in the Great Roundhouse -- redesigning ALCO PAs; fixing DL109s and FAs on the GM&O; and having the thoughts that eventually went into the Century Series electrical systems. Just hope he has left a spot for me on the "Shop Laborer - Trainee" Board.

I miss him. Thanks, Matt, for the indulgence.

Art

Ah. It sounds like you had a good friend in this person.

Matthew Mummert

mlmummert@suscom.net

> And for heaven's sake, get rid of the guys
> with the guns. No one needs to see guns and
> park cops at a rail museum. Osama is not
> coming to Scranton, and John Ashcroft
> already knows your shoe size. Think of the
> people visiting and go from there.

Never know when that wild 4-6-2 could attack the visiters! ;-) Some really good points though, your not going to tell the story of steam by just having the sit their, I think that run-by's would be a great thing. It would not be that hard to add these, at the station stop every one gets off you back up and roll by, One little thing like that will leave a huge impresion on anyone.

Start a walking tour of the prep work of getting a steam locomotive going, from shop to train. Start doing run-bys in Scranton during the day. Get some fright cars and do some swiching around the yard. Try to create Railroading in the 40's and 50's. Get a crew of three or four in the proper RR look and with an engine like the #26 just go around the yard. While doing these little "shows" i guess you could call them, show things like hooping up orders and hand signals. All this being explained to the people, sure it may be talked about in the museum, but people will understand better by seeing it done.

-Justin Franz

qcmrs18@yahoo.com