If a name or logo is no longer being used, someone can do whatever they want and keep doing it until someone sues the pants off of them.

There are a few angles on this and I am someone who finds the angles.

Here is my example:

The PRSL has been gone for years, it's track is divided up among several short lines, NJT, and Class Is. It used to be owned jointly by the Reading and PRR. It's corporate trademarks and copyrights and other stuff probably went into Conrail and now may be with either NS, CSX, Conrail Shared Assets, or maybe it remained with the Penn Central Company, or the Reading Company(both of those which were in business in recent times as holding companies and probably still are).

Angle#1

Train buff Tom buys an old Baldwin diesel and paints it up in PRSL colors with proper lettering and logos. He puts it on display and lets people view it and lets the local NRHS chapter use it for a photo train or excursion once in a while.

Angle #2

There is a big rise in interest in the PRSL and Salesman Sam puts out the PRSL logo on everything from underwear to lampshades.

Angle #3

Sneaky Joe decides to take over the rights to the name and logo PRSL and charge everyone $500 for each time the logo is used.

Now say that all 3 of these guys screwed up and the name and logo is still all rights reserved by some holding company. All 3 of them are dragged into court.

The intent of the person or group will play a role in how badly they are punished in court. How they profited and if they caused damage to the owner will play a role in how much damages will be. It could simply be a cease and desist order to repaint that old Baldwin or they could take everything you own. I would take the risk and paint that old Baldwin.

Steam Railroading Message Board

Greetings,

Several months ago, UP applied the Overland Route logo to a handful of boxcars. I read somewhere (I wish I remember where) that they did this to retain the rights to the logo. Does this sound right? Do all logos have to be treated this way for the holding company to retain the rights?

Thanks,
Gerald Kopiasz, President
Heartland Railroad Historical Society


Heartland Railroad Historical Society
hrrhs@aol.com

Can you pick up someone else's
> unused trademark and claim the rights for
> yourself, even though the name and logo have
> been used continuously by countless
> modelers, authors, and manufacturers of
> railroad memorabilia and knick-knacks for
> several decades?

In words of one syllable, NO. I would notify John Bromley at UP, who handles these issues. Since I've dealt directly with John on licensing a D&RGW logo, I know that they do retain the rights to the logos of "fallen flag" lines. Over a year ago, UP entered into an agreement with IMG licensing for the express purpose of increasing revenue from licensing heralds of the UP and its predecessor railroads. I'm not sure where that relationship stands, but UP has NOT abandoned its rights and interest in predecessor trademarks.

You should be able to find John's email address on the Western Board at Trainorders. If not, contact me backchannel (johnacraft@johnacraft.com) and I'll get it to you.

JAC

I think I can provide a little insight into "fallen flag" trademarks.

The trademarks of the Penn Central and its predecessor roads did not pass on to Conrail. Keep in mind that only the Penn Central Transportation Company was taken over by Conrail - the Penn Central Company (which was a holding company for myriad businesses, including an amusement park at one point) continued to exist and retain the rights to the trademarks of the Pennsylvania Railroad, the New York Central, and New Haven.

Penn Central slowly divested itself of its various businesses over the following 20 years, until they were left with their underwriting and insurance businesses. Penn Central Company changed its name to American Premier Underwriters in 1995, and is now part of American Financial Group.

Even after the divestiture of its rail business, Penn Central continued to use its railroad trademarks in corporate calendars and similar literature. I am not sure how long this practice continued.

How do I know this? Well, several months ago (when I was still an engineering student, I have since changed to english writing) I had the pleasure of meeting with an executive from Maglev, Inc., the public-private consortium in charge of developing the proposed Pittsburgh maglev project. Following his presentation to my class, I spoke to him about a Trains Magazine sidebar I read in 1995 about how Penn Central's successor, American Premier Underwriters, still owned the trademarks. I surmised that they might be willing to sell them. They would be particularly relevant to this project, as its eventual goal is to connect Pittsburgh to Philadelphia.

I haven't spoken to Maglev, Inc. recently, so I am unaware of any recent development, though I'm considering contacting them soon, as I'm curious if they have decided to pursue the rights to the Pennsylvania Railroad name.

jjlst40@pitt.edu