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 Post subject: More on Norway and SS United States
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 8:52 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:24 pm
Posts: 169
Location: Litchfield, MN.
Got this direct from website. Forgot to collect the link. I'll get that twice next time.:

French Port Fancies Former FRANCE
The laid up SS NORWAY (ex FRANCE) has been in the news again. NCL have kept the ship in good condition in Bremerhaven. Meanwhile, a French campaign to acquire the ship was begun by the "Association for the ex-France", which has launched a subscription campaign to raise funds to support a French real estate developer, Isaac Dahan, in a bid to purchase the NORWAY.

The plan calls for berthing the ship at her former home port of Le Havre as a tourist attraction and business center. However, there is competion with a another potential buyer in Holland who is seeking to preserve the ship in Amsterdam. It was reported that NCL have lowered the price to US$25m and seek a buyer by September. The 1961-built ocean liner still commands a great following in France. After a fatal boiler explosion in Miami in May 2003, the NORWAY was towed to Germany.


SS UNITED STATES In The Press
July 31: Press reports reveal NCL's plans for the SS UNITED STATES, (laid up at Philadelphia for eight years, out of service since 1969). Colin Veitch, chief executive officer of Miami-based NCL Corporation, owners of the 990-foot ocean liner, says he thinks the SS UNITED STATES can turn a profit. The plan calls for cruises between the US East and West Coasts, via the Panama Canal. The advantage of the vessel being registered in the US means that under the Passenger Shipping Act, she could sail an itinerary impossible for foreign-built ships. However, the cost of rebuilding may be US$500 million, much greater than building a new ship. NCL ordered a nine-month feasibility study involving naval architects, engineers, safety inspectors, and shipyards in the United States and Europe. NCL bought the SS UNITED STATES in April 2003 from the estate of Edward A. Cantor, who died before he could bring his dream of reviving the ship to reality. NCL also bought the 1951-built SS INDEPENDENCE (the only other US registered passenger ship still in functioning order) at the time after American Classic Voyages filed for bankruptcy. The success of any plan involving the SS UNITED STATES is very much linked to NCL's new interisland Hawaiian service. By 2006, NCL America expect have three US-registered ships in Hawaii.

If the plan to revive the 52-year old SS UNITED STATES goes forward, the first phase of the work focusing on the hull and propulsion system would be done in the US. She would then be towed to Europe, where the superstructure and interiors would be built. Colin Veitch said the ship could be sailing by 2010.

Doesn't seem extremely hopeful for either one.
Mark D.


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 Post subject: Re: More on Norway and SS United States
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 11:25 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:07 am
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SS US was designed with USN input as a likely troopship so she was designed to fit through the Panama Canal. The propulsion system is similar to the Midway (CVB-41) and Iowa (BB-61) classes as built. Since SS US was laid up in 1969, I would guess the power plant is relatively unmodified from as built.

When the USN was reactivating the Iowas in 1981 or so, there was a call for old Chiefs who understood these power plants to come back from retirement. That was 20 years ago; hence the need to repower the ship today.

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 Post subject: SS United States
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 11:27 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:35 pm
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Location: Pacific Northwest
I'm no expert, but it seems ludicrous that it would cost more to retrofit than build new. Think of the price of steel alone.

I hope somehow that these plans come to fruition. These ships are national treasures.


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 Post subject: United States
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:28 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:24 pm
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Location: Litchfield, MN.
About the only thing on the big U that I think they plan to use is the hull. Most certainly it will be diesel powered, and I grudgingly agree this makes economic sense.
The Superstructure doesn't appear to be compatable with the proposed new mission. They are likely to want lots of open aft deck spaces currently not there, and many more upper deck cabins. This reads to me as several decks added on with all kinds of pools, hot tubs, sports courts, open air food courts, and such. Probably much more than was done with Norway.
If they do this, then being that it is somewhat narrow of beam for its length it will be a tender ship. Thus, they will need extensive stabilization equipment to keep the passengers happy.
Also, all wiring will have to be replaced along with all referigation equipment, generators, water handling equipment including fresh water tanks, plumbing, Hmm. I can see it costing more than to build new because all this has to be designed to fit an existing hull, and installed after the fact. Consider- It's easier and cheaper by far to wire and plumb a new house during construction than to re-do an old one.
Still, if they go this route with the U, I see it as somewhat better than the scrap yard. Or, maybe it isn't better to be turned into a Cyborg. More food for thought.
Mark D.


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 Post subject: Re: More on Norway and SS United States
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 6:37 pm 
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Location: Beaumont, Texas
It is my understanding that the SSUS also has an aluminum superstructure on a steel hull. There is/was a layer of something (I don't know what) between the two to keep bi-metal corrosion from forming; but that material is gone now, and corrosion has set in.

All of the above mentioned; plus the latest SOLAS regulations, will definitely force them to strip her to the bare hull and rebuild it. It will be interesting to see what the results of the studies will be.

-James Hefner
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Surviving World Steamships


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 Post subject: Re: More on Norway and SS United States
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 6:56 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:24 pm
Posts: 169
Location: Litchfield, MN.
James, you are correct about the use of aluminum for the superstructure. When it was built aluminum was used extensively throughout the whole boat, wherever possible or practical. And I've often wondered just how well it has fared over the years, since aluminum, salt water, and another metal makes for a sizzeling combination.
My hope is that they might find the corrosion isn't so bad that it can't be stopped with new barriers, and keep as much of the old superstructure as possible.
More likely they will forget about using the whole boat and just scrap it.
Mark D.


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 Post subject: This isn' preservation
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:29 pm 
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We need to remember that if the United States is rebuilt for service it will not be a preservation project.

Little other than the hull will be saved. The hull is being saved not because it is old or historic, but because it was built in the US, and as a US built ship, registered in the US, with the minimum number of US crew members, it can be used on cruise itineraries than foreign built and flagged ships cannot. If they could find a way to run this itinerary with a new ship they would drop this project in a minute.

As she is currently configured the ship is not economically viable, and hasn’t been since the 1960’s. To change the configuration they will effectively scrap the ship above the water line, removing virtually any of the public areas, and replacing them with new construction of a very different type and outline.

I would expect that she would keep the old name, and that they will use lots of art work to remind the passengers of her roots, but that will be only decoration and marketing.

As for the cost being higher, today new cruise ships are built in modular sections them assembled on the ways, much like a liberty ship (except in many cases the new ships are assembled indoors). When rebuilding/reconstructing this ship they will need to use more traditional build in place style, as they mate old work to new work. This costs much more.

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 Post subject: Current State of the Big "U"
PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 12:05 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:44 am
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Recent pictures of the interior public spaces of the big "U" reveal that there's really not anything left to preserve there. All interior fittings were stripped out and auctioned off about 10 years ago. Even most of the interior walls are gone! The shape of the ship itself is iconic- I remember spotting it from the air flying into Philly and recognizing it immediately. 'Retro' is fashionable these days, so hopefully the overall styling of the ship (twin streamlined funnels, etc.) will be retained somehow.


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