Greetings,

I was wondering if anybody could give me the approximate weight for the following:

60' Amercian Car & Foundry mail/baggage car
approximate build date: 1918
without draftgear/couplers
without trucks
no significant interior
without brake appliances

God Bless,
Gerald Kopiasz, President
Heartland Railroad Historical Society

hrrhs@aol.com

Strictly a guess, but I would say in the 60,000 lb range. Some short tank cars with all the running gear can go to 54,000 lbs, a steel caboose at 45,000 lbs or so. So without the heavy trcks and draft gear, but with at least another 20 feet of length you have my rationale. How good is the guess? Well lets say plus or minus 10,000 lbs. Certainly not as little as 25,000 or as much as 90,000 lbs. I am fudging a little on the high side since this is an older 'heavyweight'.

Bob Kutella


68trolley@home.com

Greetings,

Thanks Bob for the help.

My plan was to personally acquire this sucker for preservation. However, today I saw an alarming sight. This car is located at the sight a of scrap yard. The yard is currently being cleaned up. Some genius cleaned about 10-15 of roof off my car with a backhoe. Right now I'm disgusted.

So the question that I have is, is it still worth saving? The roof consisted of the following: channel iron that was rounded to the contour of the roof from side to side (about 7 were removed). The channel iron appears to be attached to the walls by 90 degree brackets. The walls themselves don't appear to be damaged. Riveted sheet metal rested upon this. Underneath there is a layer of insulation (perhaps animal hair), then light steel supports to hold that up, and finally a layer of what looks like masonite material. The existing roof could be utilized as a pattern to recreate the damaged portion. There were also 3-4 roof vents severely damaged.

The carbody itself is in good condition. There has been some rusting, but it appears that could be cut away and replaced. As mentioned before, the brake appliances and trucks are long gone. It was built somewhere around 1918 and finished its career sometime after 1967. It appears to be a mail baggage car. Also, it appears to have been modified by the railroad from its as built form with some windows being blocked out.

So the question is, is this car worth saving? Is this still a common car--would it be like launching an effort to save an ordinary boxcar? This needs to be answered myself by tonight because there'll probably be nothing left after tomorrow. I'd be down at the site first thing in the morning to visit with the contractor. The owner's said they didn't want this car scrapped, so it seems odd to me that this occurred. I'm a realist when it comes to preservation, hence why I would like to hear your input. My reasoning is I hate regrets and don't want this to turn into one. What are your thoughts? Feel free to contact via email or phone round the clock. Stay tuned for the exiting conclusion. :(

God Bless,
Gerald Kopiasz, President
Heartland Railroad Historical Society
402-598-6641

hrrhs@aol.com

Gerald,

If the car is free and can be moved for a reasonable sum, then go for it. There aren't going to be any more made. It will take a lot of money and time to put it back together, but it can be done. There will be people that disagree with me since it's just a baggage car or RPO, but still, our group is going to take a wood caboose that has rotted to almost the point of no return and restore it, so what's the difference? New steam engines are being built, when there are old ones that are facing an uncertain future and there are people that would rather build a replica than save the original. I'd rather have the real thing and restore it, than have a replica. True some of the really neat stuff is already gone, and a replica is the only way, but sometimes it's not. Look at the logistics of saving it and look at what the group needs. It can always be used as a storage building or a gift shop or even a theatre. I was blessed with a big heart and no money, but I love to see underdogs (stuff that people usually wouldn't even bother saving) saved. Again, this is just my opinion.

Have fun and let me know what you decide,

Stuart

Frisco 1506
gnufe@apex.net

Or is it a heavyweight? Floor wood or concrete?

Is the car unique or fine in any particular respect that makes it, a substantial project, particularly and unusually worthy of preservation?

If it is just another generic baggage car, probably it is not worth agonizing over. If it is the sole remaining survivor of an unusual shortline, maybe.

Do you need this car for your developing museum? Do you believe you can get the required stuff to restore it? Is it likely to just continue to rust if you do move it? CAN you afford to move it and put it under roof?

Rule of thumb: Get funding to the tune of $100 per linear foot of track along with every car you acquire for basic guerilla conservation - the rest doesn't matter if you can't swing this.

BTW, the prospect of asbestos components in the insulating material might just buy you some time if you mention it to the owners. It isn't uncommon.

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

Greetings,

It is a heavy weight with a wooden floor for the interior. I'm not sure if there is concrete underneath it. There could very well be. The car is former Southern Pacific. I'm not sure how many others exist. I've only seen this one, but I don't have many miles racked up. This is intended for my personal collection and not that of HRRHS. I have the knowledge and tools to do most of the work. What it comes down to is money and simply if it is worth the time and effort. There's a small amount of asbestos on what is remaining of the steam line. I'll have to keep that in mind.

God Bless,
Gerald Kopiasz, President
Heartland Railroad Historical Society

hrrhs@aol.com

The weight of this carbody is probably around 45 tons; if it has a "fish-belly" centersill there will be a lot of metal in there. (However, some Harriman cars were lighter than the general run of heavyweights, and did not have heavy centersills.)

It's difficult to imagine that this car is worth saving. RPO's are not scarce; most museums seem to have at least one, often in good condition with complete interiors. There is a faint chance you could find appropriate trucks, couplers and brakes. A few museums stashed heavyweight trucks from cars that were scrapped between the seventies and the present, but heavyweight parts are now scarce. The trucks and couplers may have been unique to this car; often heavyweight head-end cars had odd hardware.

Be sure you don't fall victim to what I call the "front porch" phenomenon. Unlike a baby abandoned in a basket on your front porch, railroad museums or individuals are not obliged to take in every hulk that appears in the local scrapyard. Better to find a complete, significant car in need of conservation than to devote resources to a wreck in need of extreme unction.

Aarne Frobom
The Steam Railroading Institute
The Michigan State Trust for Railway Preservation, Inc.
P. O. Box 665
Owosso, MI 48867-0665

froboma@mdot.state.mi.us

Greetings,

I can understand where you are coming from. I don't think everything should be saved--could you imagine how much space we would need to save every conceivable piece of railroad equipment? My reasoning for posting this whole issue, is to make sure there aren't any regrets. Let's harken back to days when certain pieces of equipment were very common and fast forward to days when that equipment is no long in existence. I'm sure when the last NYC Hudson was scrapped someone probably said it was just another locomotive so cut her up. So can someone tell me how many of these cars still exist? The number of the car is 6360, I'm sure the car was renumbered in its latter years. I think it is a class 60-B-B (or something similar to that). Can anyone provide further information? We should verify this before the car is lost to history.

God Bless,
Gerald Kopiasz, President
Heartland Railroad Historical Society

hrrhs@aol.com

Gerald,

Contact Frank Scheer at fscheer@erols.com. I have never run into anyone more knowledgeable about RPO's across the country than him.

Good luck in your efforts,

Matt Bumgarner

stealthnfo@aol.com