I haven't posted one of these in a while, but here is a new restoration photo for you to "guess" what is going on:

Tim, Give me a challenge. Obviously, side sheet and side sill repairs are going on. What are you going to use to simulate rivets?

Gary,

Carriage bolts. Most of the shaft gets cut off and then they get welded into place.

Why not stick steel rivets through the holes and weld them into place? The head profile would be correct relative to carriage bolts.

dave

I like the addition of the "drive-up" window for carry-outs!
Don C.

I'd recommend using real rivets welded in place rather than carriage bolts, as Dave suggests. We have used both, but Dave recommended rivets when we had to rebuild the front end of the Georgia Northern 107 tender. We later used carriage bolts on a boxcar, at a location somewhat hidden by the ladders. The difference is obvious. I'd go with proper-sized rivets if at all possible. Dave or I can get you a supplier name and phone number.

Dave, Years back, when I was managing the upgrade of Roanoke Chapter NRHS' passenger car fleet to the revised (40yr ispection, HEP, etc) NS Steam Program mechanical standards, we used Lake Erie Railcar as a contractor. Orel Parsons was then running that company. One day over lunch, we were discussing the restoration of heavyweight cars. Orel told me that, at that time, the rivets that were available came mostly from the original suppliers, and were made on original tooling. However, due to wear in the tooling, the head sizes on rivets made in 1991 didn't match the head sizes of rivets made in the 1920's. Therefore, when they were doing heavyweight car work, they used carriage bolts, or large screws with the heads filled in, to get a closer match to the original rivet heads. Has anyone out there run up on this?

We were able to get an almost exact match for the original tender rivets, two sizes. Of course, if none of the originals remain, you would at least have a consistent appearance, no matter what you use. The main problem with the carriage bolts is the shallowness of the heads. Also, the edge of the head is slightly rounded, whereas the rivets and screw heads are sharp-edged and sit flush with the metal surface. If I were to not use rivets, I would look at using the large round-head screws and fill in the slot. It would be a closer profile to original than carriage bolts.

From this photo it appears that the new steel is slightly raised when compared to the original steel. Is this the case?

Tom Cornillie

The statement about the rivet size is somewhat inaccurate. The rivets, if any larger today, are so by less than 1/64 or so. Rivets must meet standards and among them is the head size. A rivet used for a "fake" installation will have a slightly different head though, this is because it has not been driven. Driving slightly changes the shape of the head.

And so far as rivets versus bolts for cosmetic purposes.....why use a bolt when a rivet can be had for about 1/6th the cost?

No, I think that is caused by the angle of the camera.