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 Post subject: CPR 1278
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:37 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:35 am
Posts: 8139
Location: Wilton, NY
With the phony number of 127, it was once Nelson Blount's favorite engine. Long removed from those days, it sits here awaiting repairs on the Ohio Central, in 2004:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... x?id=77410


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 Post subject: Re: CPR 1278/Steamtown 127
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:15 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 6487
Bob:

I have no problem that Nelson Blount renumbered the locomotive. This was a common occurence when a locomotive went to a new owner. As long as it was not still lettered for the Canandian Pacific, a number change is no big deal. What IS a big deal however, was the additon of the round Elesco feedwater heater. To "improve" the looks I'd guess, but then perhaps the feedwater heater was a working appliance. Anyone know for sure?

Despite the feedwater heater, I think she still looks pretty good. Wouldn't mind having her at our museum.

Les Beckman (Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum/North Judson, Indiana)


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 Post subject: Re: CPR 1278/Steamtown 127
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:39 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 4777
Location: Maine
I do hope OCRR gets her into the shops soon. I rode her first fan trip on the CNJ, conducted by a fellow named Rowland. Nelson Blount was extremely proud of the rebuild. I'm sure the anticipated rebuild will have to be something ala' the K4s in intensity. I wouldn't want to trust anything done by her last owners. The accident report reads like a horror story of how not to run a steam locomotive.

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"It's only impossible until it's done." -Nelson Mandela


Last edited by Richard Glueck on Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: CPR 1278/Steamtown 127
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:34 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:57 am
Posts: 2599
Location: Faulkland, Delaware
I am sure she has earned the title "Boomer", lets hope her next chapter reads a lot better then her last.

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Tom Gears
Wilmington, DE

Maybe it won't work out. But maybe seeing if it does will be the best adventure ever.


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 Post subject: Re: CPR 1278/Steamtown 127
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:39 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:12 pm
Posts: 45
Just how bad is/was the crown sheet failure in her. Most crown failures
I've seen pics of resulted in the general destuction of the loco. A real
testiment to the builders of her that she's still with us.


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 Post subject: Re: CPR 1278/Steamtown 127
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 8:55 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:18 pm
Posts: 168
Location: Staunton Va
My best sumation of the actual crownsheet failure is that it was just plain luck that nothing worse happened. Looking at the published pictures it appears that only a small portion of the sheet was over heated, and it was all that went. I hate to think what would have happened if it would have waited till a few more inches of water were used......:(

But no matter how good or bad her construction or her condition, low water is still low water and it's still the worst case senrio.


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 Post subject: Re: CPR 1278/Steamtown 127
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 9:06 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 1:04 pm
Posts: 625
The Elesco feedwater heater was fully functional on the 1278. If I remember correctly it had a heater before the conversion. That heater may have been a Elesco mounted insided the smokebox but I am not at all sure about that.

John Bohon


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 Post subject: Re: CPR 1278/Steamtown 127
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 9:15 pm 

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 11:47 pm
Posts: 68
Location: Maine
The builders of this series of CP locomotives designed the crownsheet so that every other row of crown stays had button heads on them. The idea being if there was no water on the crownsheet, you'd have a controlled failure, instead of a catastrophic failure. I saw the photos of the boiler after it blew up and it wasn't pretty.


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 Post subject: Re: CPR 1278/Steamtown 127
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 9:31 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 4777
Location: Maine
These locos had a box-like feedwater heater, still present on 1293, and until recently, on 1286 (it may be there still). This was in front of the stack. The feedwater heater was either internal or never on the 1238 and 1246. I don't call if it ever was on 1201.

The crown sheet on this loc was built so a failure would release the steam straight down through the grates, and not into the cab. As it was, the cab was filled with scaulding steam and ash. The pictures taken immediatly after the explosion show a cab looking like a bed of volcanic ash.

A great deal of her cab had been modified for operations on the Gettysburg, prior to the accident. I doubt if Ross Rowland or anyone else who ran her would have recognized the cab from when Blount rebuilt her. Something was seriously wrong with the way she was treated as a piece of machinery operating on expansive steam pressure. What was discovered in the post-mortem was a wake up call for all steam locomotive operators. The steam tractor explosion that followed in Ohio, was the kicker.

I'm betting this was the coup de gras for outrageous insurance premiums to run hired steam locos on mainline tours.

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 Post subject: Re: CPR 1278/Steamtown 127
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:18 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 2701
Location: Sackets Harbor, NY
I was hired in a consulting capacity by a prospective buyer of the entire operation very shortly after the boiler failure on the Gettysburg and suffice it to say that I never ever witnessed equipment so poorly kept. As far as I'm concerned it was a sad testimony not only to the ineptitude of the operator but also to the Feds who were supposed to be ensureing at least some degree of compliance!!! It's also strong testimony to the wisdom of those who designed the crown sheet of the G-5's so that there would be a "controlled" collapse vs. a full blown catastrophic failure. The amout of scale throughout that system was just incredible and clearly evidenced a total lack of care/maintenance. I guess the truth is that its amazing it didn't happen earlier and worse than it did.
We're all indebted to those design engineers(and the good Lord) that she didn't totally go-as that might have well ended the day for everyone??
Whether or not the O/C folks will ever invest the serious money needed to put a new firebox on her is of course an open question that only time and Mr. Jacobson can answer.
Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: CPR 1278/Steamtown 127
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:21 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:06 pm
Posts: 2567
Location: Thomaston & White Plains
CPR G-5 feedwater heaters:

The first two, 1200 and 1201 (which were kind of experimental) had Worthington S-type. The next batches, 1202 -1272 had Elesco exhaust steam injectors mounted under the fireman's side of the cab. The last batches, up to 1301, had Elesco coil-type heaters-- same hot water pump on left side of engine, and the "Bathtub" heat exchanger mounted in front of the stack.

FNB reportedly did not like the look of the "bathtub", and had his crew change it out for the older tube-sheet type of heat exchanger.

When 1246 was placed in service in 1970, the exhaust injector was removed and a lifting injector substitued. The exhaust injector apparently was stored at GMRC's N. Walpole shop and went to scrap in the 80s.

1238 and 1286 had their exhaust injector/coil FWH removed at some point after George Hart sold the locos; I think almost as soon as Red Clay Valley bought them in 1969.

The button-head crown stays serve to delay the dropping of the sheet off the stays, and the pressure lowers a bit less than instantly, thus preventing a launch (in theory). J David showed me a piece of the sheet; it was bright blue from being overheated.

I think the high premium for mainline trip insurance was a result of the NS Dismal Swamp wreck with N&W 611. There were a number of serious injuries on that one, moreso than the 1278 incident.

Increasing freight traffic on fewer mainlines, mergers, overworked supervision (trainmasters, asst supts., etc), Dismal Swamp, all combined to cause Class Ones to say, "Why bother?" when asked to open their railroads up to steam operations. It is far easier to spend some money on lobbying activities in DC than it is to operate steam locomotives. And a lot more fun for the railroad's CEOs. We all had a nice run of those things, after the big steam era ended. Thanks to N&W, SOU, UP and others, and thanks to the individuals who made it happen too, like Brother Rowland, Paul Merriman, Blount, Jensen, etc. It was great to see, but it's over now.

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 Post subject: Re: CPR 1278/Steamtown 127
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 6:34 am 

Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:34 pm
Posts: 39
For those who want to read what happened:

http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/1996/SIR9605.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: CPR 1278/Steamtown 127
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:06 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 2701
Location: Sackets Harbor, NY
I would respectfully suggest that everyone take a few minutes and make use of the above link and read the Gov'ts. report on this tragedy. As stated earlier it's more than a minor miracle that it didn't end the industry as we know it.
Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: CPR 1278/Steamtown 127
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:39 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:54 am
Posts: 746
Location: Michigan
Quote:
Just how bad is/was the crown sheet failure in her. Most crown failures I've seen pics of resulted in the general destuction of the loco. A real testiment to the builders of her that she's still with us


When I was volunteering at OC on a more regular basis (kids and jobs can cut back on things like that), they used to have what remained of part of her crown in the shop, sort of as a reminder of my favorite adage of steam, courtesy of the Huck's Marty Knox:

"Steam has great potential; it has great potential to bring in thousands of visitors to ride your train; it also has the same potential to kill every one of them if not respected."

Lets just say that the damage is bad enough that its falls in the "pictures say a thousand words" arena......

From everything I've been told and seen, the button-head crown stays/ overall design is the only thing that saved that crew AND the engine, ultimately.


TJG


Last edited by pm-man on Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: CPR 1278/Steamtown 127
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:07 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:18 pm
Posts: 168
Location: Staunton Va
As to feed water heaters on 1238 and 1286.....

The 1286 had a feed water heater on it when Jack Showalter bought and brought it to Virginia. It was one of the first things to go since the pump didn't come with it, and what was there apprently had some freeze damage.
As for the 1238, I never heard any one mention any thing about an exhaust injector, I'd assume it was gone by the time Jack bought them.


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