As a follow-up to the discussion here about a year ago I just did an informal survey of about 100 of the leading passenger haulers to see whats happened with the whole Polar Express licensing issue.
As I expected the vast majority of the operators have simply renamed the product with North Pole Express and Santa Express the 2 most popular variations, to negate having to pay the enormous royalty demanded if its called the Polar Express.
Interestingly most are still offering all the things that went with the former name(hot chocolate, read a story, gift,visit from Santa) just changed the name.
I also found it very interesting that some operators are already sold-out for the season thru late Dec. at very healthy prices($25/adult,$20kids) while others aren't at substantialy lower prices. Some of that is of course the very different markets, but a lot of it is marketing savy. Also, some web-sites are easy to navigate and book online while others are very difficult to even find the North Pole/Santa products and not equipped to take reservations. Some are experiencing such strong demand that they hold an annual auction to see who gets to buy tickets!
What makes me curious is why anyone would pay those hefty royalties rather than just change the name and make a few easy adjustments in the presentation?? Must be something not obvious on the surface or are they just asleep???
Ross Rowland

SRI is nearly sold at at $60 adult/$30 kids for the 4 hour event... Over 80% sold.

We go by the name North Pole Express.

Our webiste is www.mstrp.com

Could it be an issue of branding/name recognition? After all, we do live in a country where the brand is big...nike, tommy, disney, etc.

In some cases you could make a strong argument for branding but not here. Santa is Santa and the North Pole is the North Pole.
The fact that many of the operators who have chosen to go "generic" are already nearly sold out at very healthy prices proves this beyond any doubt.
The mystery is why anyone would find paying that exhorbinant royalty the smart thing to do??
Maybe one of those who have chosen to do so will share their reasoning with us??
Ross Rowland

I will say that even with minimal advertising, SRI's NPE is selling extremely quick.

A commercial JUST came out for it, even though it is already 80% sold, and I believe it would easily sell out even without the commercials.

Here is the commercial if anyone is interested in seeing it.

http://home.comcast.net/~njones4455/NPE2006SRI.wmv

Ahh, I see the bell on the 1225 is jingling double time for the holidays.
I'll be helping out at Mid Continent's 'Santa Express' Thanksgiving weekend.

Steve Z., your buggy is FAMOUS!! I saw it on TV!

Is that Norbert the Conductor?

Steve Knapp

I heard back channel from one operator still running under the original name (with its heavy royalties) that they're stuck with it for this season because of a contract signed last year but starting next year they'll be free to go "Generic".
He shared that for them the net difference is in the area of $ 30,000-that's a lot of money to pay out for essentially no reason! Live and learn!!
Ross Rowland

The Northwest Railway Museum has offered the two-hour "Santa Train" since 1969. It has the usual chocolate, visit with Santa, gift from Santa, etc. Tickets are $12.95 and all 11,000 have been sold out since the beginning of November. No royalties to 3rd parties!

I think one good reason to sign up as a licensed event is that it shows a degree of professionalism and credibility. Look at it this way, how many non-railroad museums out there would try to capitalize on something without the proper permission / agreements with copyright holders, etc. It seems that this speaks more about the lack of respect for the creator of the book and the subsequent film by the groups who are running knockoff events. To me, this is one of the basic problems in gaining the respect of corporate donors and others in the rail preservation field. Obviously a Santa Train isn't the same thing as a North Pole Express and certainly not everyone needs to sign a deal for every kind of event out there, but I think it is a fine line......

Since I don't know what is involved in these deals, I really cannot say what is fair or not, but I would think that the Durango & Silverton has invested quite a bit into this program. I also presume that some on this board do not like the personalities involved more than just the topic of the events perhaps??

James

It would seem to me that those relatively few outfits that have chosen to pay the immense royalty to retain the "Polar Express" name vs. using one of the many generic equivilants are the ones whose professionalism needs to be examined. I say that only in terms of the cost/reward analysis. Other than the name what are you buying for a huge payout??? Not much it seems to me, and obviously the majority of the industry.
As for the author of the book, he was far better off pre-Harper as all the outfits that now operate the generic version (and thus no longer use the Polar Express book)no longer promote/sell his book in their gift shops nor aboard their trains. So the author&publisher are clearly losers in this equation.
Seems to me that this is clearly a case of principles over personalities.
Ross Rowland

On the other hand Ross, it depends on the value of the total package for the specific entity involved.

Not everybody has the marketing capability to sell, or the production savvy to create, their own event from the ground up. If the package they purchase includes professionally created plug and play marketing tools and strategies, and production elements proven and tested and already invented, it could mean a successful event instead of an unsuccesful one.

I like to think of these events as theatrical productions - touring shows cost more than home grown in some cases, but not all, and there may be qualitive differences worth considering. I'd like to see these packages develop into complete productions with sets, costumes, and at least one or two company representatives to assure the production is successful and well presented.

dave

I think it really depends of what the package you are buying has come to represent in the public's mind. In the case of Thomas the Tank Engine, the TV series, books, etc. are well established and existed for years before the events were marketed to tourist lines.

In the case of the Polar Express, you had a very popular book. I would not put the book in the same level of fame as Thomas. There were a lot of "Santa Train" events before anyone thought of running a tourist railroad event around the book. Frankly, a lot of outfits did a lot of different creative things for holiday trains besides the Polar Express. Last year the movie came out. I know it got mixed reviews, but it made money for the studio - I don't think you can consider it a hit. In fact, I would suspect it has taken away interest from the book. You think of the book in terms of Tom Hanks being the character, much like Clark Gable is Rhett Butler. So at this point you have to decide if buying into the movie makes sense for you - it does for Thomas, I am not sure about Polar Express.

I set up a good Santa Train concept about 10 years ago that worked well for the years that the railroad ran them (they have since changed management and stopping carrying any passengers). It was well executed and what we found was that after year 1 we had 90% repeat business and incredible word of mouth. Don't forget that parents talk to other parents all the time and if you have a good event they WILL tell their friends and classmates (the same holds true if you screw it up as well).

Both Dave and SO make valid points. As SO points out nearly everyone in the tourist railway business had developed some sort of Christmas holiday product long before the Warner Bros. movie came out. Quite a few roads had matured to the point where they offerred both "Santa" and "Polar" themed products at different times of the day and in the case of the Polar theme it was based around the popular childrens book. Then along comes the movie which certainly gave it a tremendous shot in the arm(albeit ONLY for one year) and a lot more public interest.
The irony here is that nearly everyone in the industry was already up and running (some for many years) with both products long before the movie and the subsequent franchising deal. You can certainly understand that an outfit that had worked hard to develope/fine tune and execute a successful program over a period of years wasn't about to fork out an outrageous royalty for the use of a name that is easy to "genericize"!
I highly doubt that anyone in the industry needed to purchase a "plug and play" product-particularly at a whopping 30% royalty! The proof is obviously in the pudding-look at the properties running a generic version vs. the original version. And the irony here is that the books publisher and author are the biggest losers as all those who have gone generic to escape the 30% vig no longer use the book as the basis for their programs nor do they offer it for sale on their trains nor in their gift shops.
SO is right about Thomas. What makes Thomas work and worth the royalty is in large part the power of TV. The hordes of kids age3-8 who drag along their parents/grandparents are there thanks to the power of TV. When Thomas was absent from PBS for a few seasons its draw declined dramatically and will again if its removed as a regular feature. As an operator you're paying for the power of TV. Pure and simple. With Thomas of course you also get the cute little engine itself and all those wonderful money makers called Thomas souvenirs!!! As long as Thomas remains a year round feature program on PBS it will continue to be a huge draw on the railroad. Whether or not it makes business sense on a given railroad needs to be answered by each property. I know of several very successful operators who have hosted Thomas in the past who now pass as they have concluded that at the end of the day its just too much hard work for what's left in the drawer after all the bills and royalties are paid. To each his own!
The point is there's no comparison between Thomas and Polar. They're apples and oranges for sure!
Ross Rowland