When still displayed at Cleveland, in 1960:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/co/co-s2707.jpg
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/co/co-s2707a.jpg
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/co/co-s2707b.jpg
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/co/co-s2707c.jpg

After a couple of trades, it is safe but unrestored at IRM. I think it came close to scrapping at Cleveland, perhaps someone can elaborate.

Bob:

As I compare these photos with others on this board, I have trouble believing that they are 44 years old. The texture, color, clarity would indicate at least 10 - 15 years later (1970-75 or later). Maybe the 1960 photographer had a very good camera.

Merry Christmas to all!

Scott

At IRM:

http://www.irm.org/cgi-bin/rsearch.cgi? ... +Ohio=2707

I stand corrected. . .

How many of the C&O display engines got the "C&O For Progress" treatment on their tenders and/or lost the front number plate for the sign. The 2700 got a similar paint job when Huntington fixed her up a second time and put the engine on display in St. Albans. I think at least one of the PM berks had the C&O For Progress on the tender. How many others were there?

What is with the number in front of the engineer instead of below the cab window on the 2707? I have never seen another C&O engine so decorated.

John Bohon

John -

For the record, the number plate (and builders plates) from our C&O Kanawha (#2789) was stolen when the locomotive was on display in Peru, Indiana's West Side Park. A 'replacement' number plate was fabricated (not very authentic) which the engine wore for a long time. Perhaps the owners of 2707 felt that the C&O for progress sign was easier to make than a replacement number plate. After the 2789 was relocated to North Judson, someone came by and offered her number plate to us. The museum decided that the plate was important to the looks of the K4 and purchased it. It currently once again resides on the smokebox door of the locomotive. For the record, the 2-8-4 is now kept inside of the museums LOCKED Shop building.

Les Beckman (Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum/North Judson, Indiana)

Les,

Has the interest/ability to get 2789 back in running condition changed any now that the new shortline is in place and operating the railroad into North Judson? I'm sure the tracks will need some ties and surfacing, but from what I've read, you couldn't ask for a better set of circumstances to operate a locomotive like 2789. Looking for some good news for the start of the New Year!

Thanks,

Rob Gardner

Rob -

There are a couple of problems with running on the "new" shortline that comes into North Judson. Including:

1. Although the railroad is about 33 miles long, it is actually laid out like a "T" and is not a 33 mile straight run.

2. The only turning location is where the three "legs" of the "T" come together (at LaCrosse, Indiana.)

3. One leg of this wye is actually on a tight curve. In fact, the operator of the short line will not let us haul the cabooses we use when we run passenger carrying trains to LaCrosse around this leg, and we must drop the cabooses and then take our diesel around the wye to get on the opposite end of the train for the run back to North Judson.

There are a number of other factors involved, but I can tell you that, although it has long been the policy of the museum to restore #2789 to active service, the current Board of Directors has no plans in the wind to begin such a restoration.

Les Beckman (Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum/North Judson, Indiana)

I got a letter at the museum from Kevin Kohls of Bucyrus, Ohio who advised me that I was incorrect to state that the number plate from our C&O Kanawha #2789 had been stolen. Kevin pointed out that the 2-8-4 had been in storage at Clifton Forge, Virginia as early as 1952 and that the C&O DID sell number plates off of stored power. We know that the C&O had to put a number of stored locomotives back in service in the mid-1950's due to a traffic upswing and thus had to make a replacement number plate for the 2789 at that time. Kevin states that when 2789 later became the property of HVRM, he was able to track down the owner of the original number plate and, according to Bruce Emmons our museum Treasurer, HVRM purchased a PRR number plate for $500 which was traded for the 2789 plate. Kevin subsequently received the 2789 plate, sandblasted it, painted it and returned it to HVRM and that is the plate that now proudly resides on the smokebox door of our Kanawha.

Thank you Kevin for setting the record straight!

Les Beckman (Hoosier Valley Railroad Musuem/North Judson, Indiana

http://www.pmhistsoc.org/pm1223.shtml



Question: did any of the PM Berks actually get renumbered / repainted into C&O while in active service (i.e. operate as a C&O loco)? The two survivors apparently did not.

JAC

John -

The answer is YES! There are photos in the "Pere Marquette Power" book put out by the C&OHS of C&O #2699 (ex-PM #1215) WITH the "C&O for Progress" emblem in the corner of the tender and C&O #2689 (ex-PM #1205) WITHOUT the emblem.

Les

To add to what Les said, the ones which were renumbered/repainted to C&O livery were all from the first batch, the N class. When they were renumbered, the C&O referred to them as N-3s.

None of the N1s or N-2s[1] were renumbered or relettered for the C&O while in active service.

[1] For some reason, the N1 designation wasn't typically hyphenated on the PM, but the N-2 designation was.

Les, Fritz -

thanks.

JAC

IIRC, the reason the two newer classes of ex-PM berks were never relettered or renumbered was because the equipment trust obligations required that any equipment not fully paid for had to remain in PM lettering. I remember reading this in the C&O power book.

Also, the book states that the C&O applied thicker driver tires to some of the ex PM engines, giving them 70" drivers.

Getting a chance to read the book text, apparently all of the C&O N-3's (ex-PM numbers 1201-1215) WERE renumbered and relettered for the C&O as numbers 2685-2699. These numbers were just below the C&O's own 2-8-4's numbered 2700-2789. None of the other ex-PM Berks were ever relettered or renumbered even though C&O numbers were assigned.
Just for the record, surviving PM 2-8-4 # 1223 (currently on display in Grand Haven, Michigan) was to have been C&O number 2657 and PM #1225 at Owosso was to have become C&O #2659.

Les