As you can see the original thread(below) by this title has been locked from further discussion.
I want to thank the 46 folks who have taken the time and effort to write to me( via back channel and pm) with their support and encouragement. Many of these folks are as astounded as am I that moderator Bailey saw fit to delete my original post wherein I reflected on the parallels between the mood of our nation in the early 70's and today and the impact that mood had on giving birth to the American Freedom Train project. I have encouraged them to write to the higher authorities here at Rypn (as I intend to do) and suggest that Mr. Bailey recieve some additional training before he's given deletion powers.
I'm all for keeping this board clean, respectful and for the purpose of discussing railway preservation in all its manifestations. However we must be ever on guard against the abuse of the deleter and those that insist on everything being so politically correct as to render the site totally impotent.
I hope many of you who have written me will take the time to make the same points you made to me to the folks here who Mr. Bailey must listen to.
Thank you, Ross Rowland

To whom it may concern:

I have just been requested to look into this issue by Hume Kading. I have not been following this thread, nor did I read the removed post. Upon reading the post, I will talk about the issue further with the individuals directly involved in no less than 5 days so as to provide a cooling-off period.

While I value and respect the opinions of the participants on this board - they will not influence my opinion in this matter.

On a more general note - those who run RYPN do so on the margins of what are otherwise very busy schedules (whether it be engineering the next generation of airliners or writing masters' theses). While we all value you, we ask that you also respect us by being considerate of us.

Tom Cornillie

In a recent post, Hume made explicit mention of a lower amount of posting. I can think of several who don't come by anymore.

I would suggest that is a direct result of excessively sensitive moderation-in some cases anticipating offense before any is taken.

Personally, I gave up posting for about a year, partially due to personal circumstances but largely because I grew tired of both front and back channel chiding that had conveyed the tone of a librarian shushing a rambunctious group of adolescents.

First of all lets not get carried away with our own significance. The advocation is largely actively pursued by a number that can be counted in the thousands in a country of 300 plus million.

Secondly, this is an internet chatboard-its a vent for passions considered disproportionate by the vast majority of our fellow citizens, more than anything else. If you post, you should be prepared to defend your position from ENERGETIC opposition and have a thick enough skin to deal with it. I'm well past the age when I welcome the watchful eyes of a chaperone eager to ensure that my discourses at the cotillion meet with agreement of Ms. Emily Post and I properly place my hand on an appropriate place on the young lady. If I run my mouth, I should expect to get an earful and be tough enough to take it and fire back if necessary. Not every vigorous discussion will end up like Hamilton and Burr absent zealous moderation.

Long time readers know I'm more likely than not to disagree with Ross. However, given the dearth of any big time operations, lets hear his observations. Circumscribing the scope of the expression of his thoughts to anything that doesn't hit hotbutton topics means sacrificing accuracy and relevance.

Frankly, I post less for the opposite reason. Civility is a lost art. Since this is a forum based on preservation, perhaps we should bring back more Emily Post from the past and George Washington, who for that matter wrote a beautiful "rules of etiquette" at age 13, which may be found by foraging through the Williamsburg website. Let's not mistake energy for obnoxiousness. All it takes is a few more words and a little thought to change a ramrod into genteel persuasion. I reiterate. It has become a lost art. Replies on bulletin boards rarely get a thorough "once over" necessary to create the appropriate tone. Anyone can banter at will with little or no effort or control. Disagreement is not necessarily banter, but it can be presented so through thoughtless and hasty responses.

My apologies to Mr. Rowland, to Hume and to other participants in this forum. I will continue to edit briefs and articles as long as possible, but will not EVER perform any moderator functions on the Interchange.

Doug Bailey

Since we have mentioned posting practices here, I will just offer that in the case of some websites (not this one yet) where I used to participate regularly, I hardly post at all any more. The reasons are pretty simple, some of them mentioned in previous postings here:

1. An increasing population of posts from individuals who have no manners and only want to argue.

2. Many strings debate issues that have been openly discussed in public meetings with exact answers provided, the posters apparently have no knowledge of those proceedings.

3. An increase in "farming" of the internet by pirate parts builders and untalented "authors" who do not want to take the time and effort to do real research the old fashioned way. Why spend your time doing work for these people for free?

4. You can post absolutely correct information based directly on your personal involvement in something that happened years ago, and have a half dozen people who were not there and obviously know nothing about it, instantly showing up to debate it. In some cases I have actually contacted all the other surviving participants in an event, and none of them had any idea where these self appointed "experts" came from, but they unfortunately get an equal audience on the internet to those who know the facts.

The net result of all of these is that the discussions get less participation by some of the people who have the most direct access to information.

MX (Obviously not my real name)

I followed that thread up to Sunday and saw nothing objectionable about it. Strange, very strange indeed!

Later!
Mr. Ed

If I may put my two cents in…

RYPN is unique in that it is civil, on subject, well moderated and populated by industry professionals and level headed enthusiasts. This is due largely to effective management on the part of the moderators and the maturity of the posters. There isn’t anywhere else I’d go to research a paint chip, what year the 759 ran through Scranton, what roofing material lasts longer in the sun or the proper archiving techniques for 100 year old paper.

There are plenty of other forums for sniping, drooling over mediocre photos, soapbox derbies, discussing the state of world affairs and self-aggrandizement. This forum lacks all that for the most part and that’s due to effective moderators. If they err on the side of caution, so be it. If your post gets locked or deleted and that’s the worst thing that happens to you during the day, consider yourself lucky.

I think we take ourselves too seriously at times; this isn’t rocket science or heart surgery, no one is going to lose a life or limb if a moderator puts the kybosh on a thread. I’d rather an overly cautious moderator then see the forum devolve into another Chaski or one of these other forums “moderated” by 14 year olds (or those with the mental capacity of one). We’ve talked about “touchy” subjects here before (see the 1361, 2100, Georgetown Loop, CATS and others) and usually done so with civility and an open mind. When the thread goes off the rails, its been rightfully locked.

I say thanks Doug, Erik, Hume, Kevin, Randy and all the others who have kept the board on point over the years.

Dave Crosby

Of the various sites I wander through on a daily basis, RyPN is by far one of the best in every regard. Moderation, professionalism of participants, and level of expertise I find refreshing and quite helpful.

I do take issue with using the Chaski site as an example of a poorly run site. It has a different focus than RyPN, but is run every bit as well. Again, most postings are interesting and fit well with the focus of the site. Yes, pine wood derby cars were discussed, but the true focus of that thread was how many of us brought kids into our shops to help build cars and introduce them to a lathe, or mill, or drill press. I was surprised at how many guys do help kids build cars in their shops. With out such machine shop exposure, many of those kids will have gone through life never having seen a lathe or mill. Yet, perhaps one of those kids will pick up on that interest and will become the next Marty Knox.

I did not see Ross' original posting. He fought a hard battle in the early 1970s to bring forth the AFT and it may be wise for many of us to listen in on that bit of history. We can all learn for that experience.

Steam restoration is not getting any cheaper. Ross hit on the sponsorship concept long before baseball stadiums were named after defunct dot-com companies. I'd certainly like to learn more about how he pulled it off, and that has to include a discussion on the economic and political environment of the time.

So, Ross....how did you do it and how can that concept be applied today? And further, how can we all use (tastefully of course) sponsorship in our various restoration or preservation efforts?

J.R. May

If a man can be sponsored to drive left for a few hours every week, why can't a steam program come up with a sponsor? After all, this is all the UP program really is...

Clem:
You read my mind. I think NASCAR invented sponsorship. And it works on the grand scale nationally televised Cup races and at the small scale local tracks.

I had looked into sponsorship some time back but the board tax attorney suggested caution in that income from sponsorship may be taxable income to a non-profit organization. There's more to this, but that is the simple explanation. He did not say it was impossible, just that there is a bit more to it than might seem obvious.

We know sponsorship works at the National level as seen on the AFT. And if we use automobile racing as a model, we can be somewhat assured it will work at the local level. The key is keeping it tasteful.

J.R. May

JR (and everyone). Need to clarify my comment soap box derbies. By that I meant those on the internet who never miss the chance to "get on their soapbox" and preach for or against their cause. I must have missed the thread you mentioned, as I'd never criticize any means to get kids into a shop, railroad or otherwise!

Dave

What did Mr. Rowland say that exhibited these deficiencies that you find prevalent.

I'm not suggesting moderators tolerate the defamatory or profane. However, too many people pull the "offensive" card as a way to silence people or assert authority.

Dave:
> By that I meant those on the internet who never miss
> the chance to "get on their soapbox"

And thus the common problem of the written word versus real voice or face to face discussions. My aplogies. I understand your point completely.

J.R.

All,

I have hardly seen a profane post here. RyPN is tame compared to most internet bulletin boards. The majority here has been friendly and helpful. I see more smug posts than anything.

JR:

Sponsorship at this level involves all of us working together. The thought on this is the Kendrick Motorsports guys. Multiple drivers are under the same banner. While they are competitive, they never (usually) forget that they are all on the same team under the same banner. Many people in the steam community forget that we are all on the same team and the folks that have the first hand knowledge are few and far between. The reality is that the groups that are up and coming need the guys with the experience to share the wealth of information that only experience has given them. I have seen sharing of experience like this once recently...

Flame suit on> The worst part of this, I really don't care for NASCAR at all.