Just saw on Fox news that some California town has banned the sale of bottled water in favor of tap water.Their reason is to cut down on carbon emissions released by ships and trucks transporting the water from Europe.If crazy things like this are happening I fear at least local bans of steam locomotives could be coming soon. All I can think of now is this Jackie Gleason (Buford T. Justice) quote: What the hell is the world coming to?

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"Our engines don't run on bottled water, so we should be fine"

Now, that's funny!

I imagine running your steam locomotive off of bottled water would be a labor and time-comsuming activity. Can you imagine how long it would take to fill a 4 or 5 thousand gallon tender from bottled water? Then, what would you do with the bottles?

Oh come on now, you know that they would never fill from bottles. It would most likely be 55 gallon barrels.

And Kelly, don't you know that in California we already run our engines on bottled (from France) water.

To solve both problems we at OERM have 1000-gallon bottles delivered by mule team. (Now street maintenance is after us--wink, wink)

Nope, we use only Arrowhead Springs water.

I seem to remember that steam locomotive operation is prohibited by city ordinance in Green Bay, WI. I assume the reason was effective political action by the homeowners immediately adjacent to the National Railroad Museum's 1 mile long loop of track (several homes are very close).

This is one case where it would be better to be regulated as a railroad by FRA, since federal regulation trumps local ordinances. Absent FRA regulation, Museums are subject to regulations growing out of local political pressure and may not have much clout to fight back on the local political level.

Burn the bottles in the firebox - that's what I always did.

I recall reading in a Knoxville,TN newspaper that the Three Rivers Rambler tourist operation with 2-8-0 203 was only allowed to run if they converted fom coal to oil.The owners of some high priced condos near the line were concerned about coal soot and the city took action for them.

What, no Deer Park water from the B&O?

Water supply CAN be a serious issue in places like the Grand Canyon, however, and having seen at least one brewery shut down by lawsuits when a city literally could not understand that a brewery consumes (and ships out) far more water than it sends down its sewers, I predict that if a steam railroad is forced to dieselize, it'll be over water consumption issues, not smoke.

At the risk of making myself extremely unpopular on this forum, I will comment that we have now reached the point on commuter rail systems where to add an additional train in a non-attainment area, you have to file a study and prove that the per-rider emissions on commuter rail will be less than the per-rider emissions of the same number of people driving their cars between the same originating and terminating points. This has to be proven with a realistic estimate of actual ridership, not the total seating capacity of the train.

We are also at the point where the EU wants to regulate cattle feed to reduce their "gaseous emissions".

I think it is just a matter of time before the environmental forces take notice and thermal efficiency and stack emissions become a much bigger issue. So enjoy steam locomotives while you can, no telling what the future might be.

MX (Obviously Not My Real Name)

We used to do that but one of our passengers in an open car wound up having a blob of molten plastic land on them. So, no more plastic bottles in the firebox.

Phil

We are entering into a brave new world of carbon footprints, and an all-out attack on CO2 emissions. Nothing could better dramatize the perceived problem visually than an operating steam locomotive, so it would be wise to get out in front of this issue. The best defense is that steam locomotives are authentic historical artifacts, few in numbers, and a relatively small part of the problem; and therefore, should be exempt from tightening emissions regulations.

But for as sound as this defense is, there is also a great weakness that offsets it. That weakness is that the purpose of emissions from steam locomotives is only recreation. This purpose will be hard to justify when compared to the essential purposes of freight and passenger transportation, automobile commuting, industrial and manufacturing processes, and heating and cooling of homes and businesses, all of which will be called upon for sacrifice to meet the looming regulations.

Ron,

I agree that this is recreation, but it underscores the American lack of investment and placing of importance on history. Knowing about our past can certainly help us in the future. The "freedom" derived from operating one's car becomes questionable when stuck in gridlock. So, maybe our recreation (and telling folks about the golden era of Southern California mass transit may actually be more imprtant than "commuting by car".