During the last 2 weekends of October, the SAM Shortline hosted Thomas the Tank Engine for our first DOWT event. It was successful, and I may be able to share some numbers later. I was not involved with the contract side of the event, only the operations side. Three of the SAM Shortline conductors were assigned to "operate" Thomas on the shove movements, and I was one of those. (All our conductors are rules qualified on the host railroad.) It was great fun, although at times it was like riding inside a big steel drum. The fun part was not so much being able to "run" Thomas, but seeing all those little children with the big smiles when they see Thomas coming into the station or having their photo taken with him. That's what its all about. There's no telling how many family photo albums I'm in as "Mr. Conductor".

Anyway, we had SRR-built Replica No. 2, and I was wondering if all of the replicas were identical as far as the set up and plumbing for the blower, smoke generator and emergency brake valves. I observed some things about these items that could stand to be modified a bit. One I would consider a safety issue (nothing major, just a consideration). Is SRR responsible for the maintenance on the Thomas replicas or should the HIT be contacted directly with the suggestions?

What is the "Prototype Thomas"?
and no, I dont mean "the historic loco class that Thomas is based on"
I mean the first actual Thomas! with the face on the front! ;)
That would have to the "prototype thomas" and all other Thomas' would be "model thomases" regardless of size..

Thomas was invented in the 1940's by Rev. W. V. Awdry..He (Thomas) probably existed only in book and illustration form for many years..
anyone know when the first model was made? and what scale?
lets say it was O-scale, with a gauge of 32mm,
that would make all the "real" "full-size" Thomases (that run on track with a gauge of 4' 8.5") scale models built in about 45/1 scale..45 times larger than the prototype! ;)

(sorry Stephen..I obviously dont know your answer to your question! I was just intrigued by the concept of "Thomas Replicas"..and how a "Thomas Replica" would be defined..)

Scot

.

Stephen,
Glad your DOWT was a success. It is a lot of work, but it sure brings the people out. We had about 20,000 riders this year. It not only generates revenue, but also brings people to our museumm that wouldn't normally come.

Bill Houston
Heart of Dixie RRM
Calera, AL

Folks,

I am interested in the "real" Thomas replica, the real steam switcher from the Brooklyn Eastern distric Terminal Railroad. I saw her at the last Railfair and the kids were a very happy bunch!

The loco is based at Strasburg, but does it cost more to truck him to another site, than the Diesel shell?

What about the eastern museums, can the steam locomotive actually be run to their sites, assuming they are connected to the national network?

Ted Miles

first book 1945

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A721126
says:

When noting down the original tales for his son, the Rev W Awdry often accompanied them with simple line drawings. When the books were published, these drawings were used as a basis for the illustrations by Reginald Dalby, the artist who was to be responsible for the illustration of the first 11 books. Reginald took his inspiration, not only from the author's sketches, but also from real life. Thus, Thomas was based upon a Victorian shunting engine, built for the London, Brighton and South Coast Railway and Gordon, the largest of the engines on the Island of Sodor, was based upon the Sir Nigel Gresley A3 Pacific-class locomotives built for the LNER3, the most famous example of which is still running today - The Flying Scotsman.

http://www.iglobal.com/Drew/origins.htm
says
During the 1960's the Rev. Awdry built a model of Thomas's branch line and exhibited it at various model railway shows throughout England.

could be originally an O scale
and the original first Thomas model (prototype) may still exhist
what would that be worth on ebay...

what an odd juxaposition as to the prototype/replica relationship
I must think upon this as it could open up a chicken/egg problem in other places as well

what scale is a model of the star trek enterprise based upon
the real ship, or the model which is the prototype

this could get complicated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
owww, now my head hurts


dr

Ted, the BEDT-based Thomas does appear at "eastern" sites; Valley Railroad in Connecticut is where the steam-powered Thomas is right now, having operated last weekend and it will be running there this coming weekend. It is more expensive to truck the steam Thomas around; it does not travel between sites by rail. It is partly disassembled (stack removed, etc) to make road clearances.

The "shell" Thomases are not "diesel"; they are simply not powered, and are most like a "shoving platform", being equipped with an emergency brake valve, a brake pipe air gage, an air whistle, and a "headlight". They weigh about 12 1/2 tons.

Howard P.
Veteran of 5 DOWTs (310 trains)

IIRC, there is (or was) one Thomas "replica" bult over a Plymouth (or similar) critter. Anyone know if it still exists? And if so, if it's still used at any DOWT events?

We ran the diesel Thomas you mention in 1998, it was the only one of this type and was replaced by the non-powered versions. It didn't meet FRA locomotive standards and the looks weren't quite right either, but it was the one that started the DOWT program.

It was owned by the National Railroad Museum in Green Bay, Wisconsin. My guess is that at some point the license issued for this replica was taken away, probably when the replacements became available. They were probably forced to repaint it at the very least and I'm fairly certain that they would not be allowed to display it.

I don't think Green Bay really has been recognized for its role in pushing for and to some degree creating the whole North American DOWT program. I remember seeing the presentations of the concept at the TRAIN Convention in Strasburg in 1997 and I think it is fair to say the reception of the idea by many attendees was lukewarm at best. The explanation then was that the National Railroad Museum saw that this kind of program worked in the UK, so why not try it here. I think there might have been a couple events in 1997.

Perhaps someone from the National Railroad Museum could describe how it started.

David Farlow
Whitewater Valley Railroad

folks,
I would also like to know more about how they do a DOWT in england. After all the books were written there by a retired? minister.

Do they have full size copies of the other locos in the
kids books. Isn't there a passenger engine in there somewhere?

The Videos and now DVDs came long past my younger years. Actually being a boat nut, I would have been reading something about Timmy The Tug Boat or something.

Ted Miles

Try this link to the Mid Hants Railway for one example. They don't limit themselves to Thomas. I'm sure that there are other good ones as well.

David Farlow
Whitewater Valley Railroad

http://www.watercressline.co.uk/thomas/pics806.htm

http://www.watercressline.co.uk/mhrttte.htm#ttte0807

I hope the RYPN staff don't mind me sharing this; but there is an Easter Egg (undocumented feature) of my Surviving World Steam Locomotive CD-ROMs that have to do with the Thomas roster:

Start the program as you normally do; then from the program menu selected Help, then About. The about (splash) screen then appears; double click anywhere on it, then press the OK button.

The normal listing of the world surviving steam locomotives is replaced by a roster for the Island of Sodor. It includes 30 engines; in many cases, I have pictures of real life engines that the characters were based on; in other cases, I have pictures of stand-ins with the "faces" in place.

* As mentioned before, Thomas is based on an E2 class engine with extended pannier tanks that was built for the LBSC. That actual class is extinct; but just like in the US there are other 0-6-0PTs that act as stand-ins; one of them is pictured.

* Edward is based on a 4-4-0 built by Cowlairs in 1914. Don't know of any surviving examples; don't have a picture of any stand-ins in the database.

* Henry is an LMS class 5MT engine; a picture of 45337 (with no face) acts as a stand-in the database.

* Gordon is an LMS class A3 engine; a picture of The Flying Scotsman is a stand-in in the database (although The Flying Scotsman made an appearance in one episode.)

* James is a 2-6-0 built by Hughes for the LMS. No such survivor remains today; a stand-in with no face is shown in the database.

* Percy was a run of the mill 0-4-0 tank engine; the one that is pictured in the database has a face and was built by Avonside in 1914.

* Toby was a GER 0-6-0 tram engine is now extinct. He would be the hardest to respresent as no 0-6-0Tram engines remain; although a heavily doctored 0-4-0 tram or a diesel replica could stand in.

All of the narrow guage engines are based on actual engines found on the preserved narrow guage railways of the UK. The "mountain engines" were based on the engines on the Snowdon Mountain Railway; and the minature engines (Mike, Bert, Rex) are based on the engines at the Ravenglass & Eskdale Railway.

I could go on if someone wants; but for now I will stop here. The packaging for the various Thomas toys and the thomasthetankengine website used to have the history of the engines well displayed; recent revisions removed that information or made it harder to find. My youngest son grew up with Thomas, he learned his colors and numbers from the engines. We have the wooden railway, videos and books; and even now that he is thirteen, he still enjoys DOWT. We made the one in Grapevine; and he was disappointed to hear last night that we could not also attend the ones at the TSRR and in Austin this year.

A beautiful four stack ocean liner and some tramp steamers make cameo appearances at dockside in the TV series. Steam road vehicles are presented by George the steam roller, Trevor the traction engine, and Elizabeth the Sentinal steam waggon. Given the benefits Thomas has brought to preservation, I have thought of starting an e-mail petition to include a stationary steam engine characture in the latest additions, such as Sam the steam pump or Marcy the mill engine. :)

James,

thanks for that. with your kids, I should have suspected that you would have that kind of data available.

Ted Miles

Ted, you missed out on Theodore Tugboat! This series was produced in Nova Scotia and aired on PBS for years. Similar to Thomas except that there was a fleet of radio-controlled tugboats sailing around telling the stories. Matter of fact, instead of a Narrator/Conductor character played by Ringo or George Carlin, there was a Narrator/Harbormaster played by the late Denny Doherty of The Mamas & The Papas.


And like Thomas, the producers modified a real tug into a touring life-size version...

I saw Theodore in Baltimore a couple of years ago while visiting the S.S. John W. Brown.