Here is your solid year's allocation of mainline steam in one video, from Holland...........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LjnGrG6_oA

Your titlte is interesting---- "We can only dream of this......"
The steam "fratenity" in the good ole USA will ALWAYS only dream of this sort of co-operation as long as the ego rules and the lack of common sense and good logic continues unabated.
Our country has changed from the era where we could build a complete Liberty ship in less than a month to where the folks trying to rescue the "Lost engines of Roanoke" can't figure out how much they weigh or how to move them.
Yes, much of what needs to be done requires money, but that too can be overcome with the right approach of unity and will.
The Brits retrieved the "Duke" as literally a rolling hulk, and in only(!!!!!) 12 years replaced poppet valve cylinders, valve gear, main and side rods, tender, appliances, etc.,etc,etc.(Look at the engine when the project began). (Should we mention the K-4here?) How did they do that!?!?! Could we ?
Not likely-------why????
There are many notes here where folks bemoan the inability to accomplish this or that restoration or preservation project, again why?
We are the people who built the finest machinery and lead the world in true technology(not the IT referenced as technology today), how did we do this only to be mired in confusion and disarray today.
This rant is a product of my frustation after a tenure of over 44 years supporting the effort to keep steam alive------my experiences have convinced me there is no longer a will to co-operate and endure toward that end.
If we, as a true enity were to come together with the will and determination that we have proven exists(Apollo 13 repairs), we too, could do anything we desire. We must loose the egos and be willing to truly work with common sense and good logic toward our goals.
Respectfully,
Dave Griner

Dave,

At 22 years of age, I share some of your sentiment, but many people in the third generation (0-40 years of age) have not only tired of the detractions you speak of, but are going out of their way to ensure the influence of the singular ego and train-playing politics go the way of the dodo.

There will always be some faction that wants to keep its Lionel set to itself, but there are now more than ever members of a generation whose fathers and grandfather's machines are in risk of imminent obsolescence if we don't band together to learn from the mistakes of our elders and do what for to make sure our own future gene pool can enjoy this sort of thing without enduring too many tears with the shedding of blood and sweat. I can tell you already there are far more people young and old playing nice and encouraging others to do so. What hurts one of us hurts everyone, but what helps one of us stands to aid everybody.

It's obvious that we're at a disadvantage in comparison to our brothers across the pond, but instead of beating the skeleton of the dead horse, we best concentrate on where we can prosper instead of where we have been cornered. Too long at the grave of one possibility will likely ensure many more funerals in the future and frankly, I can't afford the flowers.

Something like what ADM posted is possible (but practical?) and should not be relegated to merely the stuff of dreams. Few things are more mediocre than living in the shadow of unrealized potential.

Make no small plans, amiright?

KL

Keep talking like that and you'll be president someday ;-)

Seriously, well said!

Stephen

It's a bit of a bummer that most of the cars on the second half of the train hardly had any riders on board. I would have gladly taken one of those empty seats.

We can only dream or we can make it happen. I am doing my part. How about you?

I think we're partially missing the point.

Let's face it, when was the last time we saw ten mainline-sized steamers operating together anywhere in the United States or Canada? Not on one train, but just all in the same postal code? Hell, at this point I'll take 'em all in the same telephone area code!

I think the answer might be either Steamtown 1995, Railfair 1991, or Expo 86. And I may be way off on those.

Next, what's the obstacle? A cooperative main line. Even if Ohio Central wants to host all of us, how are we all going to get 4449, 3751, 1361, 261, 2816, etc. there? Suggest an alternative meeting place. I'm all ears.

Now, from what little I can discern, this was footage from what was Holland's big anniversary celebration or something. First railway in Holland was 1839...... hmmmm...... whatever. We could have had the Fair of the Iron Horse in Baltimore--and how many would have shown up, if that little roof collapse hadn't happened?

Once again, I note that we are in broad terms comparing apples and oranges. Germany, Holland, et al are MUCH smaller than North America. Europe is not as litigation-happy as we seem to be. Etc., etc.

But are those reasons--or excuses?

So instead of trying to make it happen on a national scale, perhaps focus on bringing together all of the operable steamers in one state? Hmmm... which state, and how many would that be...

We MIGHT.........start work now on building a bicentennial celebration of the advent of steam locomotion. This would provide an international base of interest (with the prospect of internationally shared operating locomotives) as well as be huge enough to pique the interest of the general public - particularly if it is large and international enough?

Perhaps somebody is already working on it somewhere, probably in the UK since that is where it was born.

We've got a few years, if we want to make something worthwhile. I envision John Bull, lots of B&O stuff, all the way through an inernational mainline tour using everything from 1913 Pacifics through the latest and greatest QJs. Perhaps sponsorship by facilities on 8 to 10 regional centers in the US, such as Steamtown, Spencer, Sacramento, and maybe some that don't begin with S, provided thay have the infrastructure and ability to handle crowds. Canada, Mexico, could sponsor additional tour dates. Perhaps some European and other foreign preserved steam could also take part.

Obviously, industries and tansportation companies could celebrate their heritage by supporting and underwriting this event.

Ross and other producers of sizeable steam events, is this worth consideration?

dave

Just because Holland or wherever else can host ten hot locomotives and quadra-head them doesn't mean it would be either practical or feasible to do the same here. In the States, throw in five locomotives from wherever they may be, and how effectively can each locomotive and their operator cover their respective costs, reach out to the public, and really know that their involvement in such an endeavor paid off more so than it would in was a singular excursion? It's easier and more practical in different parts of the world for very good and occasionally painful reasons.

If I recall correctly, a major event in the Keystone state last year held lots of promise; but the organizers simply extended multiple invites to Big Steam, but offered no business plan or course of action. "We'll find somethin' for you to do if ya' come" is not a sufficient answer for a 400-ton monster that takes many thousands of dollars and hundreds of miles just to get from Point A to Point B.

Of course, there is perchance another major event at this location will occur in few years, and what a grand reason to invite steam locomotives, but for pete's sake, give them something to do! Operate special excursions, interpretive displays, charters; maybe negotiate that once one or two locomotives reaches a backyard it can finally romp in that it takes off its jacket and stays a while. We can't afford to be too picky or vain when it comes to high profile opportunities like these.

It's easy to dream--but how many people in positions of power are willing to shake expectations and defy the naysayers and make appealing plans, and how many are willing to listen?

KL

Dave,
Not to be a party-pooper but I purchased from the Royal Mint a two pound coin in 2004 celebrating the Bicentennial of the Steam Locomotive. That being said I don’t why we couldn’t have a nationwide Celebration of Steam. Rather than bringing the locomotives to one place encourage the operators of steam to work together with a specific theme, logo and event schedule. In other words do our own Thomas the Tank. We could also have a special train or car barnstorming the country, think ARTrain.

For instance in conjunction with TRAIN, NHRS, R&LHS, ARM, AAR, AASLR, DOT, Kalmbach, Carstens and the History Channel, (did I miss anyone) we could declare 2010 the year of the Steam Locomotive. Think of it a steam version of the World’s Greatest Hobby or a railroad version of Tall Stacks.

We’ve bemoaned how we need to get the public and the youth involved this might be the way. But as Dave Griner pointed out for this to be success we’ll have to sideline the egos.

Did I catch a reference in an earlier posting to the Steamtown hosted Lackawanna Dieselfest?

MX

Hi Mark - Which bicentennial? Rainhill trials? Stourbridge Lion in the US? Pick any reasonable early benchmark and we can use it. On this site in 1804 pretty much nothing happened........what about 1812?

I don't think 2 years is adequate production time for selling the sponsorships and building an event of this magnitude. Something smaller, perhaps. But is a small localized plan going to excite a large amount of interest in the multitudes that aren't already the few of us singing in the choir? Any event geared to appeal to railfans will limit itself - we must appeal to everybody else, the railfans will show up anyhow.

CSRM's RAILFAIRs seem to have been pretty successful in being large events with lots of wide-ranging support, but not sure how much they stressed their resources relative to value. Could this model be enlarged into a successful national (or international) touring production?

dave

I hear a few reverberating ideas going on here. First, two sites in the US seem to be familiar or appropriate for a large congregation of steam - Steamtown in Scranton and CSRM in Sacramento (though Vancouver and Baltimore are also possible venues). A barnstorming tour of large locomotives and other displays may be what is needed to draw the attention of the mass public at a regional scale - like Artrain and the Freedom Train - in order to justify the trip and also to help publicize the operation by the sheer magnitude of scale. Finally, the purpose of such an event would be to celebrate railroad (and specifically steam) history, and to better inform the public about the railroad industry and its preservation.

It would be massive if all of these were undertaken in one project. Doing that may bring the critical mass of support such as that for AFT. I am thinking because of the haulage problem, it is not practical for a medium-sized preservation group bring its engine across the country for a festival. Therefore, I am wondering if it is feasible to have two congregation of steam festivals, at beginning and ending of a summer, east coast and west coast, with a national barnstorming tour scheduled in between?

Olin Anderson

I am willing to agree if you think big and have all kinds of political and financial support anything is possible. I can't say what the situation is in Sacramento, but in Scranton I don't see any scenario where visiting steam locomotives would be able to get there. I could see the Reading and Northern getting the 425 there. I could even possibly see the CP bringing their locomotive. But beyond that I think you have to count on what Steamtown would have running. Assuming the B&M engine and the Baldwin switcher come on-line you would have 4 Steamtown locomotive under steam, the R&N, and the CP for a total of 6.

Last year at the Lackawanna Railfest the most popular motive power were Bennett's PRR E8's, the NY&GL Erie E8, the NKP geep, and the Delaware Lackawanna's various Alcos - the ex-D&H RS3's perhaps the top attraction after the E's. Dare I say that an event with an array of diesels, old and new might bring a larger crowd than steam?