A year and a half ago we started compiling information about extant horsecars. Last June, we published "International List of Extant Horsecars" with a picture of Seashore Trolley Museum's #10 (Union St. Rwy., 1885) on the front cover. Thanks to the help of many of you, the updated list now includes 85 domestic horsecars, 78 overseas, and 19 electrified. We plan to publish list #2 in April with a different cover photo. Again, we would appreciate help from any who have information. Especially, we would like to find someone who knows the horsecars of California, a state that has more than any other. Details are lacking on many, e.g., the Disneyland cars, the Bothwell collection, and the one that was in San Luis Obispo. Thanks for all your help.

Bob Reich, Seashore Trolley Museum

RJReich@aol.com

I know there is an extant horse car from Grand Rapids, Michigan at the Vandandel Museum Center Complex of the Public Museum of Grand Rapids.

Here's their link:

http://www.grmuseum.org/vamc/museum.htm

Don't know if it is already on your list or not, but thought I might let you know.

TJG

> A year and a half ago we started compiling
> information about extant horsecars. Last
> June, we published "International List
> of Extant Horsecars" with a picture of
> Seashore Trolley Museum's #10 (Union St.
> Rwy., 1885) on the front cover. Thanks to
> the help of many of you, the updated list
> now includes 85 domestic horsecars, 78
> overseas, and 19 electrified. We plan to
> publish list #2 in April with a different
> cover photo. Again, we would appreciate help
> from any who have information. Especially,
> we would like to find someone who knows the
> horsecars of California, a state that has
> more than any other. Details are lacking on
> many, e.g., the Disneyland cars, the
> Bothwell collection, and the one that was in
> San Luis Obispo. Thanks for all your help.

> Bob Reich, Seashore Trolley Museum


Port Huron Museum
tjgaffney@phmuseum.org

> I know there is an extant horse car from
> Grand Rapids, Michigan at the Vandandel
> Museum Center Complex of the Public Museum
> of Grand Rapids. ...

I wonder if the car pictured on their web page is the same one below. The note on the back of our picture just says 'ex Philadelphia Suburban in Grand Rapids'. Date and photographer is unknown.

TMNY Archives page

webmaster@tmny.org

> I wonder if the car pictured on their web
> page is the same one below. The note on the
> back of our picture just says 'ex
> Philadelphia Suburban in Grand Rapids'. Date
> and photographer is unknown.
Hmmm, the picture link didn't work. Lets see if this works. If not, you can go to the link below and scroll down until you see the horsecar.

TMNY Archives page

webmaster@tmny.org

I haven't seen your list but there are two MULE cars from Louisville that were preserved. One is in the lobby of Union Station at Louisville and Ky Ry Museum has the other one.

I presume MULE cars qualify. After all, the driver(?) endured pretty much the same aroma whether it was a mule or a horse pulling the car.

In Louisville, mules were preferred because they held up better in cold weather and they ate less than horses (lower operating cost).

hrvideo@mindspring.com

Bob,

Check with John Smatlak @ OERM. He should be able to add to your list.

wyld@oc-net.com

> Especially,
> we would like to find someone who knows the
> horsecars of California, a state that has
> more than any other. Details are lacking on
> many, e.g., the Disneyland cars, the
> Bothwell collection, and the one that was in
> San Luis Obispo. Thanks for all your help.

California cars that I know about:
Orange Empire Ry Museum has
..1) a Stevenson body that came from Knott's Berry Farm. Sides had been replaced with plywood; no idea where it came from. From the spring cups on the sidesills it is a standard gauge car but Knott's put it on a 42" gauge push car frame.
..2) the body of a suspected former Pasadena horse car. this came from a home in South Pasadena years ago.
..3) a San Francisco cable car trailer that came via Knott's. The 19th century RR car people in the bay area say that this was a horse car before it became a trailer. Regauged from 5' to 42".

Ontario, California has an old horse car on display in a small glass sided building . It is located in downtown in the landscape median that once contained the track it ran on.

San Luis Obispo historical society is suppose to have an old horse car. Photo in a railfan book on railroads in the area show it on rubber tires. You might try its website: http://www.slochs.org/

Inside the truck and ag equipment museum at Woodland is a restored horse car. Signs say it is a Carter Bros. car. But the people at SPCRR say no it was built by some other local builder (everyone wants to credit Carter Bros).

Kelly Park in San Jose has a horse car. See this website: http://www.ctrc.org/

Disneyland cars were built new for the park.

No information about the Bothwell cars.

Brian Norden

bnorden49@earthlink.net

Jack Forney has a Denver Tramway horse car at the Forney Transportation Museum in Denver, Colorado. Their web page is www.forneymuseum.com

Roger Mitchell
Master Mechanic
Fort Collins Municipal Railway

n0mcr@netzero.net

> ..3) a San Francisco cable car trailer that
> came via Knott's. The 19th century RR car
> people in the bay area say that this was a
> horse car before it became a trailer.
> Regauged from 5' to 42".

Brian
Was this off the Sutter Street Railroad? The Pacific Ave. extention used dummies and trailers until 1929. According to George Hilton the gauge was 5 feet. One of the dummies was at the Western Railroad museum several years ago.
Tom

ironbartom@aol.com

The city of Milwaukie, Or , suburb of Portland, has an old Horse car, Originally from the Portland/Vancouver bridge line I think. It's on display outside of the museum, under shelter, and a few yards from the SP mainline. I'll try to get a pic, info, or a contact person, if you don't have any.

Smokebox

> Brian
> Was this off the Sutter Street Railroad? The
> Pacific Ave. extention used dummies and
> trailers until 1929. According to George
> Hilton the gauge was 5 feet. One of the
> dummies was at the Western Railroad museum
> several years ago.
> Tom

Yes, it is one of the trailers off the Sutter Street Railroad. guess I'll have to look it up on the roster .....

...well, I cann't find either one of our in-house rosters. But, on our website the car is listed as #77 and that it was built by Sutter Street. This should be correct as the current webmaster who revised the site is also our collections VP.

The people we know in the SF Bay Area that are into old-time car builders, etc. say that the trailers were used as horsecars orginally. This is based upon reports of cars on-hand, etc.

As I recall, we do not know the how and when the car got to Knott's Berry Farm. At Knott's it was set up to sell popcorn, etc. When got the car the sets were boxed over to serve as counters, etc. When they were removed the seats were found!

Brian Norden


"other traction" at Orange Empire Ry Museum
bnorden49@earthlink.net

The City of San Fransisco owns one or perhaps two horse cars.

One is on display at the cable car barn. #54, is a Sutter Street horse car.

The other was rescued from the port of oakland.
United RR car #68 (I believe). It was a part of a house out in the avenues.

The Baltimore Streetcar Museum has a horsecar, in very unrestored condition, in their carbarn. I was told they had surveyed it for restoration, concluded it needed everything, so it will remain as is, an ancient artifact in its own right.

The Electric City Trolley Museum Association

What has become of the Cherrylynn horsecar, said to be Denver's first? When I last saw it in the 1970s, it was displayed outside a shopping mall in one of the SW Denver suburbs, replete with a fiberglass horse.



bobyar2001@yahoo.com

Baybe I should leave this to Bob Reich,who has pictures of the car, but the car and fiberglass horse have been restored in a building in Cherrlynn. They used far too much plywood for my taste, and I suspect a lot of plywood too.

There are a number of the metal parts of the original car in the replica. And the horse looks rather pleased with himself there on the back platform. TM

ted_miles@NPS.gov