I was talking with a non-railfan type person today at a Western-themed competition shoot, and we got to talking at the Grand Canyon Ry and their recent decision to cancel scheduled steam. He made a comment I'd never thought of before but it made sense.
He thought of the GC as "the last regularly scheduled steam passenger operation in American history." He didn't even consider it a museum or "heritage" operation (to use the British phrase) but a running passenger operation, moving folks from A to B on a daily schedule with all paid staff and for a profit, where the equipment wasn't restored so much as maintained to make a profit.
Y'know, that sort of made sense in a way. It wasn't like Steamtown or some place like that where volunteers struggled to keep trains running really to nowhere, the GC never made their engines look like they historically did and made no attempts to call itself anything other than a working railroad.
I was just curious if anyone else would have thought of it that way. I know I hadn't, but I can't say it's really wrong to think of it like that...

I would agree, I had come to the same conclusion earlier during the period that I worked for the railroad. As you said, they ARE the only railroad out there that serves as a form of true transportation...there is in fact a destination other than some little town that exists only because a railroad delivers people to buy touristy merchandise.
Are there any others out there that can say the same?

Just for the sake of worthless debate:

Mount Washington Cog Railway? I would furthermore argue that they use(d) steam far more than the Grand Canyon did, because the GCRY only operated steam part of the year.

Disneyland and Disney World?

Cass? Is there another way for people to get to the top of Bald Knob other than hiking?

Nope.

Wouldn't the Valley Railroad in CT qualify? They run regularly scheduled trains to a destination daily. As far as I know the employees are paid and it is a for profit operation. Just like the GC there are other ways to get to the destination. They have even bought their second Chinese mikado after selling the first one. That is really not a historic locomotive, at least not in the US.

John Bohon

As an employee of the Valley Railroad, I'd agree. Although a great
majority of our passengers come for the steam train and riverboat
ride, we do carry passengers to our Hadlyme flag stop, where they
take the ferry across the Connecticut River, to visit Gillette Castle
State Park.

Lee Carlson

Major points deducted for lack of clarity.

You could be saying "Nope" to any of the following:
*"I was just curious if anyone else would have thought of it that way."
*"Are there any others out there that can say the same?"
*"Mount Washington Cog Railway?"
*"I would furthermore argue that they use(d) steam far more than the Grand Canyon did, because the GCRY only operated steam part of the year."
*"Disneyland and Disney World?"
""Cass?"
*"Is there another way for people to get to the top of Bald Knob other than hiking?"

And BTW, Valley also entered my mind as well, but I was uncertain whether they still offered a cross-platform connection to Amtrak. I would point out that there is at least one excursion line I have seen that DOES sell one-way tickets on rare occasions to folks that want a ride down to the end terminus to hitch a ride with someone at the U.S. highway that passes within spitting distance of the picnic-grove terminus, so in theory we could argue this until the cows come home.

Given a little more time tho think about it, Durango and Silverton would qualify I think. I believe you can still ride the railroad one way, they definately go to a destination regardless of which way you ride, and if they still pick up and drop hikers off along the line the even make flag stops. I assume they are still a for profit operation and may even haul freight if the opportunity presents itself.

Really Cumbres and Toltec would qualify even being a nonprofit. How many transit agencies are government owned and not expected to make a profit? I believe C&TS does all the things D&S does. That would make them people movers in my opinion.

John Bohon

I think Mt Washington is a very valid instance, one I hadn't thought of. People ride it to go someplace specific as it's easier to do so.
As for many of the other lines mentioned, I think they're ridden for the ride itself and not so much as a better alrternative for transportation to a place people want to go to regardless of if rails were there or not. If the D&S or C&T roadbeds were highways, would people still be going to the place served by the existing lines like they do now?
Seems to me the GCRy was one of the few RRs that people ride because it was less of a hassle than to drive...
I know when my wife and I rode it last year (behind #29, both ways, rode the obs car and stayed overnight at the El Tovar), everyone we talked with said they were riding because it was easier than driving up there. All thought the steam engines were really neat as well, and oddly I didn't encounter a single railfan in either car we rode on each way!

In some sense, the GC Ry is a glorified parking lot shuttle. Other such lines exist, sometimes steam powered. The Fairtrain run by the group in Noblesville comes to mind.
At Loon Mountain there is a short steam powered shuttle for skiers. Maybe there are other examples. I know that the trolley line at the Midwest Threshers in Iowa serves a very real function of bringing people to the main gate from the campground area. I recall their steam train route has two stations, and perhaps there are some people who use it to cross the large campus.

If a person is riding a steam train for any purpose other than deadheading or a tourist trip, then it would be a legitimate form of transportation. The hikers on the Silverton are not there for the fun of the train ride, necessarily. Does the White Pass serve people who are limited in their transportation options? If the function is there, it counts for something when using absolutes in your definition, even if it is not the primary reason for existence.

It might be argued that the GCRy was the the most recent last regularly scheduled passenger steam train. Before it came into existence, was it perhaps the Reader Railroad? I think we might see something like the GCRy start up again, and then maybe it too will be shut down to be the newest last regularly scheduled steam passenger operation. Or whatever.

How about the Strasburg RR?

Doug vV

From the perspective of the FRA, all of us, including GCRY, are operations that are characterized as historic, tourist or excursion service. And there is not a one of us who wants it otherwise.

49 CFR Part 238 covers equipment used in revenue passenger service and it is not pretty. In order to comply, we would have to alter our equipment to the point of being unrecognizable. In addition, it is Part 238 that prevents US commuter railroads from utilizing, where appropriate, European equipment. As the FRA tries to add more and more crashworthiness standards, our European counterparts ask whether we have ever heard of signals and brakes.

The nope was regarding the subject line of this thread.

Brevity saves.

Not Realy.
About late 1962 or 1963 when they were using an 0-6-0 steam loco, my father tried to take the family for a ride to Paradise. He called the Public Information Department of the Free Library of Philadelphia and asked the librarian to read him the timetable of the Strasburg RR from the Official Guide of the Railways. Strasburg RR really did pay for a regular timetable listing which gave times at all the intermediate stations as well. The last Fall Sunday train from Strasburg was 4:00 p.m. and the 1st stop was Cherry Hill about 5 minutes later. The last trip from Leahman Place was about 4:25 p.m.
Because of heavy buggy traffic on Strasburg Rd., Daddy feared that we would just miss the last train. At that moment, he saw the street sign for Cherry Hill Rd. and immediately turned right to the railroad crossing. When we got out of the auto, there was even a tiny locked station building with "Population 19 (more or less)" under the Cherry Hill name. Moments later, the steam train stopped in front of us. I eagerly started to climb up the steps just as the train started moving again! My mother snatched me back and we all piled back in the car. Daddy drove us to Paradise, where we found the engine running around the train. He found the conductor, who explained that the "stop" and timetable were just for show, the railroad didn't really handle intermediate passengers. But he did feel sorry for us and agreed to take the children back to Strasburg if my father would pay the regular fares. Some time later, back at Strasburg station, while we were looking at the exhibits, there was a loud speaker announcement, "Will the family that boarded at Paradise pleas come to the ticket office". Daddy later told us that he was given a partial refund with the explanation that "We have never handled 1-way passengers before, so the conductor didn't realize that the fare was different". Later, he found that the railroad had filed a passenger tariff with the Pennsylvania Public Utilities Commission that listed all the intermediate and 1-way fares.
About 1974, I was riding with some friends on Lancaster Pk. As we drove over the PennCentral RR bridge, the steam train was just arriving. I talked my companions into going for a ride, but the conductor refused to take us. He apologized, "I'm very sorry, but we don't have any facilities for passengers here".
The moral might be, "Careful what you put in print".

Don't know about Strasburg's policy on one way tickets today , but they certainly were sold at the station and accepted on trains 30-40 years ago. At the time Lancaster County was trying to collect their amusement tax (10% ?) from the Rail Road, and Strasburg was doing everything possible to retain their common carrier status, including advertising and selling one way tickets.