While the "every 3 month" Dick Jensen cycle wanes again, the new issue of TRAINS magazine has a nice piece about Reading office car #15. It was sold into private hands in 1964 and was recently donated in AMTRAK-certified condition to the Reading Company T&HS in Hamburg, PA.

Sister car #10, sold at the same time to the Strasburg RR, has recently been returned to service. Who would have guessed that two cars sold off in 1964 would both be operable in their "home road" state 45 years later.

It is only via private ownership that these gems survived.

So next time you hear the horror stories of folks who buy historic equipment, remember that happy endings are to be had.

Rob

Edited: I made a silly statement saying both were preserved to run. #10 was a static display for many years.

And while we are talking about Pennsylvania, let's also mention GVT/DL for owning and operating 3 ex-D&H RS3's along part of their original route and the prospect of two more running, one from the CNJ and one from the Reading.

SO,

I am with you... much respect for the D-L. The question often asked here is, "where do they go next?"

In the case of Reading #15 private ownership kept her around long enough to become a museum piece. I bet some of the D-L units follow suit.

Rob

I hate to be contrarian (oh, you guys can shut up with your "No, you don't!"), but this isn't accurate.

Reading 10 sat as a static display, the "private car Paradise," at Strasburg for something on the order of 40 years. I'm unaware of the specifics, but as I recall it was the personal property of one or two of the SRR shareholders, who gradually recouped probably the cost of the car back in 25/50-cent tour tickets. If it had been bought to run, it would have been running long before this.

Furthermore, yes, the Reading sold off both cars in the throes of financial difficulties. But supposing it hadn't? We saw how long both PRR, NYC, and EL business cars survived in Conrail executive train service, and how many private cars bounced around between railroads in their later years. I see it as equally likely that this car might have gotten to the RCT&HS by donation by either Conrail, NS, CSX, or some short line that bought it for executive service (Susquehanna/Delaware Otsego? NY&GL? SRNJ?).

I'm happy to give private preservationists their worthy due, but don't say "only they could have done it."

I believe the civic sector (nonprofits) is "the ideal place" for historic equipment.

However, I must admit that the civic sector and the public sector (government) are generally not that great either. So it's hard to find fault in the private sector.

The biggest problem with the private sector comes in estate planning, or rather - its lack. That leaves the disposal of the artifacts to family, who at best have no familiarity with the railway preservation community and don't know what to do. Or at worst look upon the "junk" with extreme prejudice due to family issues, and are perfectly happy to see it cut up.

My other bias against the private sector is that I don't like giving money to government unnecessarily. When you give a dollar to the civic or public sector, it receives a dollar. When you give it to a private-sector hobby, it receives 60 cents. The other 40 cents is intercepted by Uncle Sam and the Governator.

Two notable (and noble) private sector examples: Dan Markoff's splendid little E&N Eureka and Robert W. Richardson's collection which is now safely part of the Colorado Railroad Museum (see "Is this any way to run a railroad museum?" at http://homestaydenver.com/CRRM).

Glen

ADM my bad on the "run" aspect. #10 certainly sat for decades.

As for your "what if", I disagree (shocking, I know!). Show me an example of a car that went through the ownership you have described that has been donated to a museum. I cannot think of one. Have any business cars from Conrail, NS, CSX, Susquehanna/Delaware Otsego, NY&G or SRNJ (if they even have one) been donated to anyone? Certainly, the DO just got rid of a slew of museum-appropriate cars. Were any donated? Not that I have heard.

More than likely, if the Reading hadn't sold them then, they would have followed the path of the other anthracite railroad business cars which were mostly sold off before Conrail... some to private owners, some to scrap.

Rob

I will make the case that most railroad museums have no business owning a business car unless they're somehow in the PV charter business or using said car for hospitality--and that maybe a few places that do own business cars probably shouldn't.

While I acknowledge that business cars and PV--and the foreign equivalent, "royal trains/carriages"--elicit a "gee gosh wow" syndrome far out of proportion to their actual importance in railroad history, unless such a car can be put to use hosting visiting dignitaries or fundraising, they fulfill their role in society better as "land yachts" for the well-to-do. Besides, there probably isn't a PV owner who isn't an astute rail enthusiast or doesn't become one after throwing gobs of money at their "hobby," and the likelihood of losing a historic car like the Georgia 300 or PRR 120 to wanton scrapping or business decisions is next to nil.

Not to beat on a favorite recent "whipping boy," but last weekend three PRR tail-end cars, a business car and two observations--one of the latter in certified Amtrak condition--sat at a museum, while a privately-owned one went for a couple runs around the Horse Shoe Curve. Which evokes the "spirit" of preservation better?

So the answer to my questions about donations is "none?"

Seems to me museums dedicated to one railroad, like the Reading group, are the perfect place to interpret a business car.

Rob

I spent a quick 20-30 minutes of online research trying to answer that specific question. As far as I can tell, MOST of the cars that would fit such qualifiers that WERE in the hands of such railroads are either STILL in the hands of such railroads (Norfolk Southern, CSX, CP, etc.) OR are still living out their "second/third/seventh/etc. lives" as private varnish in exactly the same way as the two Reading cars in question did. There are STILL short lines and even Class Ones apparently looking out for more opportunities to buy or acquire business cars--at times, seemingly by playing "vulture" and waiting for current owners to pass on, sadly enough. Just in my region, the Reading & Northern and the "Robey empire" (North Shore/Nittany & Bald Eagle/Shamokin Valley/Lycoming Valley/etc.) have impressive "business" trains, and there's apparently still one car up there in storage they're waiting to fight over. (Never mind that the PRR business car Williamsport is still sitting at the Ohio Railway Museum--wouldn't that look good coupled to the Nicholas Firestone in Williamsport, Pa.?)

In other words, the question regarding the Reading cars is not "why does this happen so rarely?", but is instead "are these two cars the first in what may be a long succession of such cars to be donated to such museums?"

Lehigh Valley 353, an Anthracite Road business car, was sold by ConRail very early into private hands. At least one of the saviors died more than 10 years ago, and the car may be floating around Steamtown. Long ago, it was claimed to be the oldest passenger car running on Amtrak!

ADM, as singularly focused as I tend to be on the anthracite roads, the business car story ain't too sweet for future donations.

We know about Reading #10 & #15.

CNJ #97, #98 and #99 have gone through series of private owners. None are in museums yet, but the future is good for all three.

Lehigh Valley #353 is in an interesting situation as pointed out previously.

LNE #100 is supposedly still in private ownership at Windber, PA after years as a restaurant.

Erie #3 (is that the right #?) is at Steamtown.

I think there is a D&H car on still on Pan Am.

As far as I know, that's it for anthracite business cars. What stands out is that RDG #15 is the only one owned by a museum. Edit: Obviously, Erie #3 is owned by a museum as well. Must not type when tired.

Rob

Lehigh Valley 353 is too heavy to just "float" around Steamtown, lol, although she does seem to be travelling around the roundhouse and shop tracks a lot. Since she was built in 1916, I would risk it to say that M-K-T no. 403 (built 1913?) is the oldest that can run on Amtrak. Anyone want to go for 1912?

Also, Erie no. 3 is preserved at Steamtown, having been owned by the Steamtown Foundation, now in the stewardship of the National Park Service.

Regardless of our peculiarities and opinions in this field, anything preserved is in better hands than the scrap dealers. Anything preserved can be restored; all it needs is an advocate.

The Williamsport is now sitting beside the west end of the depot in Dension, but is nothing more than a shell on a twisted frame.


Happier days: at an exhibit at Columbus Union Station in the late 1960's with the Times Square (now also at Denison).

Having seen the fall of the Williamsport, as I read the TRAINS article on #15, I wondered if the donation included any supporting funds for the car, but that question wasn't answered, so I assume the answer to be no.

Actually, it was sold by the Lehigh Valley in 1976, almost literally the night before Conrail took over.