Hi all
For you people in Eastern PA that have collections of local narrow gauge railways I am looking for a few photos. My interest is in a short line called the Mohnsville- Adamstown railway. I am primarily looking for photos on the Adamstown side of route 222. I have many photos of the eastern side of the system and know that photos must exist on the western side of route 222. These photos would date from 1895 through 1904 and would have a Baldwin steam dummy or a forney style locomotive,possibly a Porter,pulling an open passenger car #103. I am trying to help find photos for a friend working with the Adamstown 250th Anniversary Committee. Also Trolley photos of the same area would be greatly appreciated. Notations on photos might say Kricktown Station, Shearer's Grove or Goose lane. Thanks folks

Are you sure that line is narrow gauge?

Bernie

Hey Bernie I can only go with the tracks that are still in place which are a 63" wide road. That is what the trolley ran on. The system was electricified in 1904 and was reworked due to devastating flood damage. That being said none of the bridges were altered from what we can see

63 inches would be broad gauge, 5 foot 3 inches. Same as Baltimore/Pittsburgh?

63 inches was Altoona, Pa.; Baltimore, Md., was 64 inches, Pittsburgh, Pa. is 62-1/2 inches. Adamstown trolleys were either 62-1/4 inches, the same as Philadelphia gauge, or 62-1/2 inches, common elsewhere in the SouthEast and SouthWest of Pennsylvania.

Thanks for correcting me on my misidentification on it being a broad vs. narrow gauge and it could have been a 62 1/2 as the rails haven't been maintained for 60 years. I could see it spreading that 1/2 inch even with asphalt being laid over the rails.

Wasn't Baltimore Transit 64.50" gauge?

Surely one of the "usual suspects" from Bal'mer can chime in on that......

Pennsylvania didnt build trolley lines to standard gage due to legislative fiat due to political pressure from the freight common carriers, so I'm wondering IF the steam line might have been standard gage, but when it was trollified it could have been broadened? Could account for the trouble in documentation......

dave

The theory that PA trolley lines were not built to standard gauge because of legislation forced by the freight railroads sounds good. But there's one problem: An extensive search of legislative records has failed to turn up any evidence of such a law.

There are several other ideas of why this was done. The one that seems to make the most sense is that the early horsecar rails were installed to a gauge around five feet so that wagons could ride on them instead of the surrounding mud.

The real reason dates back to the 1850s and 60s, and if someone can uncover it, a lot of historians would like to know about it.

BTW, if it were a law, then why did many PA trolley systems (Ex: Johnstown, Erie) build to standard gauge?

Yes, Baltimore streetcar gauge was 64.5", as is the Baltimore Streetcar Museum (BSM). BSM recently got a few cars from Philadelphia (62.5") and had to WIDEN the already wide gauge. No one else can say that!

In Baltimore, and maybe elsewhere, the gauge was set by the city ordinance that granted the right to use public rights-of-way within the city to the horse car companies, not by law. Once it was set, there was no reason to change.

It turned out with that gauge, the wagons built locally would ride with both wheels in the flangeway of the tram-style flat-bottom flangeway rail and get a good smooth ride. Great for the wagons, not so good for the street railway companies that were stuck behind them.

The story I was TOLD in Baltimore was that the city ordinances dictated the wider gauge to impose non-compatibility with freight railroads. The fear was not that electric/horse lines would compete with the freight lines, but that the granting of such franchises to private companies on public rights-of-way could effectively grant what was supposed to be a transit company the "right" to just run freight cars up the city streets wherever they wanted. This produced public opposition in places like Baltimore and Philadelphia, where what had become main-line railroads were interchanging entire train-loads worth of cars via downtown streets; to placate the public, the city fathers imposed said incompatibility.

But to quote Michael Farrell's The History of Baltimore's Streetcars:


This strikes me as just a little too glib and brief for my liking, and if anyone with more time than I do wants to research just what this bill says and more importantly why it was passed that way, more power to you.

The dual arguments for local wagons and against through railroads have been cited in Philadelphia for their 62-1/4 inch gauge. But the urban legend right across the Delaware River in Camden, N.J. is "to facilitate local wagons" for their 60 inch Confederate gauge. Maybe the 2 cities didn't want each other's wagons to have an easy time when they got off the ferryboats?

I've "known" that for so long I forgot how.....but it was probably being told by credible sources I never thought to question about it. Could be urban legend. On the other hand, it makes sense of the senseless proliferation of gages. If there's a documented source out there, please post it somebody.

dave

Is there any way we can get this thread back to the original topic--the Mohnsville-Adamstown Railway? I have seen the few photos in the book "Railroads in the Reading Area" and on the Mohonton website. Are there any other places where photos are available? Is there any way the map on the website (I believe it is incomplete) could be superimposed over a modern map. I am only vaguely familiar with the area. Is there a switch by switch track plan from the steam era? I really enjoy reading about these little railways.

Bernie Perch

Paulie62,

On Page 44 of the book titled "Railroads of Pennsylvania, Encyclopedia and Atlas", there is a photo of one of the locomotives that you seek. According to the author, Thomas T. Taber, III, steam dummy #1 had been purchased from the North Chicago Steam Railway. #1 was a Baldwin 0-4-0 built in 1892, s/n 12807 as NCSR #12. The M&A Rwy. also owned a #2, also an 0-4-0, that may have been from the NY Elevated.

I would suggest you attempt to locate a copy of the Encyclopedia (not many printed IIRC) or a copy of the separate photo book that was printed for those who like to look at pictures but have little interest in corporate history on a state-wide basis. Either way, good luck.

Rob