Have never lifted a Shay locomotive {small 36 tons}. In fact I know almost nothing about them. In a couple of days the museum will be hiring a crane to turn the locomotives direction around and then move under a display shed. I am not the project leader or planner, but am going to be on site to help. I have experience with lifting and cranes, have rigged odd ball picks in the past. One reason I want to be involved is to try and avoid any damage to this cute little Shay. Appearently it came on property by truck and I have never seen one lifted whole and complete before. Does anybody out there have experience doing this? Pictures would be great too if possible.

I would imagine you would have to chain the trucks to the frame as tight as possible, is there anything else one needs to be aware of? Personally I would of just rolled it in place, but it needs to be turned and the people in charge want to do it this way. For all I know it might damage it by rolling it in position too? Again I am not in charge here, just trying to avoid and unnecessary damage and would like to think this out ahead of time. Thanks in advance. Cheers, John.

See topic herehttp://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=28621&p=134413&hilit=lima+ohio+shay#p134413
and here http://www.limalocomotiveworks.com/Shay_10.htm
Should give you all you need for rigging.

Thanks for the links Rob. Exactly what I was looking for!

Kind of messed up as I was at the site yesterday and it would of been a time to take a serious look at it. Can't get some of the pics to lighten up to see exactly what they did as my ancient computer won't cooperate and the pics are dark, but get the idea anyway. Once rigged it should be pretty straight forward operation, would like to skip the drama of damaging anything. They have multiple lifts planned for the day, think this one is going to be the most time consuming. Again, thank you. Cheers, John.

crane it? lay some temporary track and shove it around.

Yeah I agree, panel track 3x the length of the locomotive,shove the unoccupied end of the track around with a bobcat, do a multipoint turn.

Who's getting a kickback from the crane company? Switch crane companies, and see who on your board gets upset about that.

A little more information, the locomotive will end up on a track that is not connected to the active tracks. There would be no way to move it to this area without a crane. If there was another way to move it with out a crane, it would have been done.


Ed

Exactly, in fact....for those of you familiar with mid continent.... It is going into the display shed on the parking lot side of the elevated depot platform. As Ed said, panel track is/was not an option.

Cheers, Jason

the N&W 4-8-0's lost engines of Roanoke were moved by cranes with rubber straps under the boiler and rear. Be sure the drivers are connected to the engine that they don't lift off.

IRM moved the big Santa Fe engine from the Museum of Science and Industry using panel track to get it to active track, your going in reverse, unless the new display position can't get panel track access, I guess you have to crane.

Should you do physically move it, lube up all its parts, but heck thats a good idea anyways for protection.

I think John said they need to turn it end-for-end. Nothing like putting the uninteresting side of a shay towards the public.

If there would have been some forethought, they would have turned the truck before unloading... but plans change, and I imagine this is one of those cases. I don't think panel tracking around a three point turn is a viable option. If Hulcher was involved, they'd probably put it on a panel of track, grab each end with a D-9 Cat, and just spin it around... but Hulcher is likely more expensive than a crane.

Good luck with the lift. What's the engine? I wasn't aware that Mid-Continent had a Shay, although they really do need one to interpret the northern Wisconsin forest industry of days gone by.

Thank you Dennis for noticing the fact that it needs to be spun 180 degrees. If not for that fact I personally would of looked at other options in getting it under the roof. But if we are going to pick it up to spin it around the point is mute. It will be under a roof with a narrow guage CN&W box car behind it. So with display being the idea, we want it facing the public front end first. I guess 20 some years ago someone messed up and unloaded it in the wrong direction. Statue of Limitations have run out on that one. Another thing is opening day is around the corner and the project needs to get done before then. We have the box car and narrow guage combine stored near the parking lot and we want to get all the cars where they belong. The construction around the depot is now done and the time is now to get things moved. If by magic my computer works this link should display the Goodman Lumber Company #9.

http://www.midcontinent.org/collectn/steam/gl9.html

The crane company has been used for many lifts and know of no ties to them other than they have done everything asked of them with no problems and are professionals.

I don't know if I would pick up a steam locomotive by the boiler? I would be concerned about things coming apart or getting bent and twisted. Many waste sheets are not connected to the boiler at all. The design allows for expansion/contraction, it is not as riggid as you might think. Not an expert on picking up complete locomotives, but the smoke box could end up being a pivot point at the saddle and smoke box. With 30 tons or more {depending on the locomotive involved} of running gear/frame dangling from the boiler would make me nervous. The condition of most smoke boxes do not gain my faith either, this connection is where the riggidity is the strongest. Smoke boxes are like tenders, they tend to be rotted out on the bottom side. If frame was secured safely to the boiler maybe? Again while I have some experience, I am not a professional crane operator, at this time. My experience was many years ago with mobile and overhead cranes. No damage and no deaths was alway my goal. Still is. Cheers, John.

Here's the link to Shay in the the MidContinent loco roster. http://www.mcrwy.com/collectn/steam/gl9.html

You can either lift it all in one piece, trucks attached buy rigging under the trucks or lifting it with panel track underneath it supported by some additional steel beams. Or, go to the trouble of taking the drive shafts and brake rigging apart and lifting it off of it's trucks, then moving the trucks with a heavy duty forklift or light duty crane, and reassembling it.

On our 42 ton Heisler it is about an hour to disconnect one truck, and another hour to jack it up, remove the truck, and lower it into our shop stand. There is a keeper in the truck pin that also needs to come out, devil to get to through the access hole in the bolster, but fairly straightforward. Biggest problem will to realign the drive shafts, they always get off a little. We usually jack the truck up 1/4" off the tracks and rotate the wheels until the drive shaft fits back together. 4 ton bottle jacks work fine for this part, plus some lining bars and a come-a-long.

Eric Wunz
Sumpter Valley Ry

I think I read on the Cass web site that the engine on older Shays is attached to both the boiler and the frame. Seems to me that the ONLY safe way to lift is to lift the frame with the trucks securely chained up.

Done it, two ways: Boiler and frame as one load, trucks as another, water tank as a third (if C series.) Other way, on a lifting cradle with some form of rails on its own wheels. If size and weight were no option, I'd do an on its own wheels as the better option. The teardown and reassembly can be touchy, what with driveshaft alignment and so on. I'm not happy with the chain the trucks to the frame and lift them dangling thing as it could easily damage the lineshaft stuff and brake rigging, and suspension. I've seen riggers inflict a lot of unintentional damage over the decades.......

Or, you could roll it onto a heavy drop deck lowboy and then roll it off again in the correct configuration. Saves a crane and the risk of dropping.

dave

I believe any engine has designated lift points for servicing. Lifting by the frame I reccomend it you may want some attachement to the boiler for stability.