Can anyone direct me to a resource (other than GATX) for details of standard painting and stenciling on their tank cars in the early to late 1960s? I have two cars, one built in 1963 and the other in 1969, that do not currently need much attention, but rather than wait until desperate, I would like to start locating appropriate info now and build the restoration file so it's available when needed. If it will help, the car numbers are GATX 93322 (DOT 111 AQ 60 W-1) built 4/69 and GATX 69995 (DOT 105 A 200 ALW) built 4/63. Thanks in advance for any and all assistance. Stephen

syfrettinc@bellsouth.net

Do you know what the cars looked like in service, i.e. were they simply black with GATX stencils or were they lettered for some other company? Below is a photo of a GATX tank car at IRM that was recently repainted; obviously this is a pretty unusual paint scheme, but my impression is that the liveries of cars in lease service varied wildly.

Frank Hicks


frank@gats.com

The Orange Empire Railway Museum of Perris, California, has two GATX multi-dome wine cars that were donated to the museum about 1970. At that time the cars were freshly painted with gray tanks and black markings.

The only change that has occured is that the reporting marks were changed to OETX shortly after delivery. The accountants at GATX asked the date when "reporting marks were changed." So the letters were changed so that an answer could be given.

Brian Norden

bnorden49@earthlink.net

> Do you know what the cars looked like in
> service, i.e. were they simply black with
> GATX stencils or were they lettered for some
> other company?
>
As acquired by THC the cars are black with white lettering. The 93322 also has the blue circle with white "GATX SERVICE DRIVEN" decal. The only indication of lease service is a small stencil reading "MOBIL OIL CORP. LESSEE" on 93322. I was told that the markings on the cars are what were on them when built. However, I am wondering if the cars would have had the consolidated stencil in 1963 and 1969. When did they become standard? The current markings seem to generally follow what is shown in the 1979 GATX Tank Car Manual, but that is 10 to 16 years after the cars were built. The objective is to restore them to their as-built appearance. Stephen


syfrettinc@bellsouth.net

> > The only change that has occured is that the
> reporting marks were changed to OETX shortly
> after delivery. The accountants at GATX
> asked the date when "reporting marks
> were changed." So the letters were
> changed so that an answer could be given.

Brian, through some wrangling with the GATX legal department, we are allowed to retain the GATX reporting marks. Stephen


syfrettinc@bellsouth.net

> The only change that has occured is that the
> reporting marks were changed to OETX shortly
> after delivery. The accountants at GATX
> asked the date when "reporting marks
> were changed." So the letters were
> changed so that an answer could be given.

Brian, through some wrangling with the GATX legal department, we are able to keep the GATX reporting marks. Stephen


syfrettinc@bellsouth.net

My suggestion would be to write to Bob Kutella, the Freight Car Dept curator at IRM. He has repainted several freight cars in recent years, and is very good at recreating stencils and designs. If you let him know exactly what you're going to be doing, he can probably provide some pretty good advice. He has used CADD software to create "perfect" stencils in the past, and might have some suggestions on that too. Write to:

Bob Kutella, c/o Illinois Railway Museum
PO Box 427
Union, IL 60180

-Frank Hicks

frank@gats.com

> My suggestion would be to write to Bob
> Kutella, the Freight Car Dept curator at
> IRM.

Thanks, Frank. I will do that.

Stephen


syfrettinc@bellsouth.net

> The only change that has occured is that the
> reporting marks were changed to OETX shortly
> after delivery. The accountants at GATX
> asked the date when "reporting marks
> were changed." So the letters were
> changed so that an answer could be given.

> Brian Norden

Through some wrangling with the GATX legal department, we have been allowed to retain the GATX reporting marks, so the restoration can be totally accurate. We just cannot use the cars for anything except as static exhibits. The cars were to be removed from the UMLER (whatever that is) by GATX.

Stephen


syfrettinc@bellsouth.net

> Thanks, Frank. I will do that.

> Stephen

BTW, the tank car looks fantastic! I hope to get up to Union some day.

Brian, I cannot seem to do a direct response to your post, so will do it here. Through some wrangling with the GATX legal department, we are allowed to retain the GATX reporting marks, so the restoration can be as accurate as possible. We just cannot use the cars for anything other than static exhibits. This is not a problem since we do not currently have operating equipment. GATX was to remove the cars from the UMLER (whatever that is).

Stephen

syfrettinc@bellsouth.net

However, I am
> wondering if the cars would have had the
> consolidated stencil in 1963 and 1969. When
> did they become standard?

The objective is to restore them to
> their as-built appearance. Stephen

The Consolidated Stencil became effective Jan. 1, 1972. There have been a few differences in the layout and wording over the years. If you are going to restore the car to any pre-1972 look, don't worry about the Consolidated Stencil.

hpincus@mindspring.com

If I remember correctly UMLER stands for Uniform Machine Language Equipment Register, and is the electronic data base railroads use for tracking and accounting for cars. There is also a paper version of the Equipment Register. The reason for sensitivity about retaining the historic marks is that if the cars were to move and somehow get entered into a railroad's data base, it would create confusion which equals cost. There are also liability issues.

> If I remember correctly UMLER stands for
> Uniform Machine Language Equipment Register,
> and is the electronic data base railroads
> use for tracking and accounting for cars.
> There is also a paper version of the
> Equipment Register. The reason for
> sensitivity about retaining the historic
> marks is that if the cars were to move and
> somehow get entered into a railroad's data
> base, it would create confusion which equals
> cost. There are also liability issues.

Thanks for the clarification on that. The cars were to be scrapped, so I understood the initial requirement to remove the GATX markings, but the legal folks were agreeable under the circumstances of preservation. Their principal concern was the liability issue.
Stephen


syfrettinc@bellsouth.net

The Consolidated Stencil became effective
> Jan. 1, 1972. There have been a few
> differences in the layout and wording over
> the years. If you are going to restore the
> car to any pre-1972 look, don't worry about
> the Consolidated Stencil.

I suppose it will be OK to assume that the 1979 GATX Tank Car Manual stencil placement sans the consolidated stencil will be accurate, then. But it gets more interesting, yet. I see no evidence of application of the ACI labels, which I understand were mandatory from about 1967 until 1977. The 1969-built car (GATX 93322) should have the ACI labels for accurate restoration to as-built. Where were these installed on tank cars?

The basic question I should have asked concerning the paint is this: Other than cars that were leased to companies that wanted the tanks painted specifically for them, was the GATX fleet always either black with white lettering, or white with black lettering? (Let's don't get into all the slight variations of white top/black bottom, etc.) The cars in question are now solid black with white stencils. Is it possible the DOT 105 tank and similar might have been silver with black stencils at one time, or have they always been black? (This car would likely have been used to carry ammonium nitrate solution for fertilizer manufacturing, a big industry in this part of the country.) Did GATX ever use silver?

Stephen



syfrettinc@bellsouth.net

> Can anyone direct me to a resource (other
> than GATX) for details of standard painting
> and stenciling on their tank cars in the
> early to late 1960s? I have two cars, one
> built in 1963 and the other in 1969, that do
> not currently need much attention, but
> rather than wait until desperate, I would
> like to start locating appropriate info now
> and build the restoration file so it's
> available when needed. If it will help, the
> car numbers are GATX 93322 (DOT 111 AQ 60
> W-1) built 4/69 and GATX 69995 (DOT 105 A
> 200 ALW) built 4/63. Thanks in advance for
> any and all assistance. Stephen

I wish to clarify a little. Except for cars painted differently for a leessor, were the GATX fleet cars always either black with white stencils or white with black stencils? (Let's don't get into the variations of black bottom/white top, etc.) Did GATX ever use silver? Is it possible our DOT 105 car(69995) might have ever been painted silver with black stencils? Is this even a valid GATX standard paint scheme? The car would likely have been used to haul ammonium nitrate solution for fertilizer manufacture, a big business in this part of the country.

To toss out another quirk, I see no evidence of ACI labels on the cars. As I understand, both cars would have been required to have the ACI labels between about 1967 and 1977, and the 1969-built car should have been delivered with them while the 1963-built car would have had them added. Where would the ACI labels have been placed?

Stephen


syfrettinc@bellsouth.net