Plans for luxury train in White Sulphur Springs lose steam

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:22 am

Passed to me without comment, and I'm posting this without comment. More at the link.

http://www.dailymail.com/Business/201208220250

Quote:

CHARLESTON, W.Va. -- The Greenbrier Presidential Express luxury train isn't moving anytime soon.

Jim Justice, owner of The Greenbrier Resort, announced plans last year for the $15 million train, which would operate between Washington, D.C., and White Sulphur Springs.

Plans call for the train's 15 cars to include a VIP suite car with private rooms, parlor cars, dining cars, an open-air car and a massive steam locomotive painted green and gold.

About $10 million has been spent, but right now the train is going nowhere, Justice said Wednesday.

"We were moving along great as far as refurbishing and all that," he said. "Then we ran into governmental regulations and all on how you're going to run the train. I really didn't expect that. I'm not a train expert. I thought we were pretty well covered. It's drug on and on and on.

"It's government regulations on how you're going to run it and how you're going to insure it," he said. "Beyond that, I can't give you a lot more detail.

"We have all kinds of stuff purchased, ready to go in," he said. "The chairs, upholstery, a lot of woodwork. Of course we have all of the undercarriages completely redone to government specs. The steam engine is sitting at Clifton Forge (Va.), completely done.

"It's been on hold now for probably the better part of 2 1/2 months," he said. "We've really slowed down."

One hurdle described early on for the project was capacity constraints on the Buckingham Branch railroad, which runs as a single-track in Virginia. CSX uses the line to shuttle empty coal cars, and Amtrak uses the route for its Cardinal passenger train. Another potential problem might involve railroad policies against the use of steam locomotives.

Frisco1522 · **Posted:** Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:45 am

Well, this should cause the crowds to gather at RYPN.

softwerkslex · **Posted:** Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:23 am

This looks like a direct reprint of the same story and quotes from 1-2 years ago.

There is a thread here on it.

wilkinsd · **Posted:** Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:36 pm

Quote:

I really didn't expect that. I'm not a train expert. I thought we were pretty well covered. It's drug on and on and on.

Quote:

The steam engine is sitting at Clifton Forge (Va.), completely done.

If these quotations are accurate, and the context is included, they are very telling.

It is somewhat tragic. Real money has been spent, they have engaged an "expert" to head the operation, and now this.

Mark Z. Yerkes · **Joined:** Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:47 pm **Posts:** 486

I don't think anyone who reads this will be surprised by it.

Overmod · **Joined:** Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm **Posts:** 2492

I'm still waiting for September, and I think so should all of you.

Plenty of time in two months to start in with the 'I told you sos' and the rest of it if the effort doesn't work out. But give Ross and folks a chance to start to do what they said they're doing.

I have to wonder why this story appears now, claiming to have 'inside information' from Mr. Justice but so poorly researched that the author thought 614 would be pulling the train, and apparently written without bothering to ask about the actual current state of development from the people doing the work.

Bobharbison · **Joined:** Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm **Posts:** 3010

Overmod wrote:

I have to wonder why this story appears now, claiming to have 'inside information' from Mr. Justice but so poorly researched that the author thought 614 would be pulling the train, and apparently written without bothering to ask about the actual current state of development from the people doing the work.

Have you not been paying attention to the news industry the past few years?

Researchers and editors were fired a while back due to budget cuts. They now throw stuff together based on press releases and who knows what else, random Facebook posts in some cases apparently.

Nothing much gets vetted, and nobody spends much time doing followup either.

Oh, and once you notice how often it happens in stories you're familiar with, ask yourself what makes you think the rest of it is any more accurate...

Mark Z. Yerkes · **Joined:** Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:47 pm **Posts:** 486

Overmod wrote:

I have to wonder why this story appears now, claiming to have 'inside information' from Mr. Justice but so poorly researched that the author thought 614 would be pulling the train, and apparently written without bothering to ask about the actual current state of development from the people doing the work.

Isn't the long-term plan to have 614 pull the train? I know they gave up on that initially in favor of diesels, but I had heard they still want 614 to pull it in the future.

daylight4449 · **Posted:** Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:06 pm

Look, regardless of the whatever happens with the train, this quote on the second page caught my eye;

Quote:

Asked if the culprit is CSX or Amtrak or some other entity, Justice said, "It is surely not CSX. They're great to work with. They've been perfect. I think it would be unfair for me to say it's Amtrak. The culprit really falls back on me."

Taking the blame for circumstances you can't fully control.... Whatever you think of the Greenbrier Presidential Express, that just shows pure character to open yourself up for the s**tstorm that can be started, and saying it knowingly is something else! Mr. Justice (if by any chance you read this) you sir have gained an even better standing in my book.

tomgears · **Posted:** Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:34 am

Most every experience I have with reporters involves the facts being screwed up. I'm sure this is no different, they try but they are not experts and mostly underpaid and trying to climb the ladder by reporting with as much sizzle as they can. Give them time and let's see how this plays out. I'm hoping this thread does not go out of control.

j32885 · **Posted:** Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:32 am

Well seems we have been getting conflicting reports weather the Greenbrier Presidential Express is a GO or that it IS NOT A GO. Lately it's a NO, and diesels they already acquired have been sold off recently.

Here's the latest from their Facebook Page...

Greenbrier Presidential Express:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Greenbrie ... 2106279269

Now here's the Wikipedia Entry...

Greenbrier Presidential Express
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenbrier ... al_Express

You got this website...

Chesapeake & Ohio 614
http://www.co614.com

Now here's my video of C&O 614...

Chesapeake & Ohio 614 (Museum Tour), 07-30-2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUGLZqV-SuE

I can see the project continue in another form or other.

Mr. Rowland stills owns C&O 614 and all those passenger cars. There are other places in the county which he can run them.

ekrwy2 · **Joined:** Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:12 pm **Posts:** 121

If I read it right, Ross owns 614, Justice owns the cars. I'll be patient and wait and see. I'm not here to bash Ross or Justice but with all of the obstacles thrown up by the government and the Buckingham Branch, I say run it out of Richmond up the James River Sub if CSX is receptive to the idea. Not that I'm holding my breath though.

daylight4449 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:42 pm

I still think in the interim that money could be made with the cars by leasing them out as private varnish... Or lease them for excursions. Anything to get some return on investment, in my opinion.

bory2502 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:18 pm

Instead of speculation about what is happening or not happening let us wait for Mr. Ross Rowland to give us an update concerning the project. He made it clear in a previous thread that there would be an update around labor day if I recall. So lets just be patient and wait for Mr. Rowland to provide the update.

filmteknik · **Posted:** Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:12 pm

Daylight, I think the cars are devoid of interior appointments OR were not completed because the interior appointments did not meet the regulators' safety approval. As I recall, something about different rules applying if a car is gutted down to a "tunnel" vs. just refurbishing an existing layout.

If they were in condition and inspectional approval status to be leased out then they could run the train.

This based solely on what has been stated here. I have no direct info nor do I speak for anyone.

Steve