I started to post this on the generations thread but decided to start a new thread because I wonder if this is happening elsewhere around the country. Knoxville,Tn is making great progress on revitalizing it's downtown area. But there is a movement gaining steam that the Norfolk Southern mainline and old but nearly abandoned city yard needs to be covered up with a deck structure with a linear park on top of it. This would be right behind the restored Southern Railway passenger terminal too.
I think this is a horrible idea as the deck structure will make a habitat for homeless people to move in and make it unsafe to be there like it was back in the 1970s and 80s,never mind ruining the beauty and history of the station area. I have been attacked on local blogs for posting oppostition to this idea and have been accused of grudging homeless protection from the elements and encouraging continued downtown blight. There are so many people who think a grassy field is the only alternative to "ugly" railroad tracks. Is there any way to change the minds of these "young hipsters" who see a railroad track as nothing but a obstacle to a better future? Here is a link to the proposed linear park: http://insideofknoxville.com/wp-content ... otSat1.jpg

The Knoxville station,the elevated park level would be about midway with 2nd floor of the station. Madness I think to consider this. https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?f ... =3&theater

Are they looking for NS to abandon the line like the NIMBYs in Bethlehem, PA or is the idea that the trains can stay and the park goes above them?

Rob

Norfolk Southern has made it plain they are staying,this is the Bristol-Chattanooga mainline. Think of the linear park as a lightweight elevated roadway with grass and small trees on it. The railroad tracks would be open underneath. The main originator of this idea said if homeless come then people should help them find jobs and homes.

Here is the only alternative plan for the area so far and I 100 percent support it. This would be on the southwest side of the station where the Southern Ry office building once stood and is now an ugly parking lot. I say embrace the railroad history instead of bury it. I wonder which side will win out? Those wanting things like this or those who think people want to come downtown to sit on the grass. http://insideofknoxville.com/2014/07/so ... al-update/

Johnny, the link you posted requires a FB account. Here's a blog entry that describes the idea:
InsideKnoxville - A Transformative Vision for Downtown (Posted on July 28, 2014)

I really enjoy urban parks and suspect there is a lot of value in the idea. However, KnoxvilleUrbanGuy's cost estimate is absurdly-low. He wrote:

"Green roofing" is intended to support the vegetation on top of it and and keep the structure that is supporting it dry. It is not designed to support people.

A more accurate cost estimate would be to start with the square-foot (sf) costs of a one level parking deck or pedestrian bridge and multiply that sf cost by 217,800 sf (5 acres). To that, you need to add the costs of:

1. "air rights" paid to the railroad
2. ventilation system, to clear the locomotive exhaust from below
3. stormwater runoff system
4. lighting for the railroad yard below
5. the railroad force account (probably a few million, given the complexity of the track configuration)
6. another 20 to 30% for professional engineers to design the whole thing

Thank you Chris for this very insightful knowledge.

Actually, something like that can work if done properly. Up the road in Phoenix, the State of Arizona did a similar thing when Interstate 10 was constructed through the heart of the downtown area. Rathar than lose the acreage as unusable open space, the interstate was decked over to permit use of the space.

Oy, such an awful idea...
It baffles me how people can be on denial about human nature.
In college, I worked in a Kinko's copies place near the campus. We had the Catholic church two blocks east who fed the homeless people once or twice a week, and the homeless shelter two blocks in the other direction. I all the time I worked there, I never once was able to get out of my car or leave work without one of them hitting me up for money, all had a sob story. After that, I have zero patience for their ilk, because I now believe many of these people like this life and fully want to live off the labor of others. Sure, there's excpetions to everything, but I just don't give them the time of day after dealing with them in such bulk over such a long period of time.
Even shelter staffs will tell you to donate to a shelter so your money is going to the care of people who truly need it.

One of the earliest projects of this kind was Grand Central Terminal in New York City, completed in 1913. The New York Central decked over what had previously been an open yard and sold the air rights, creating a new commercial neighborhood surrounding the station. Look closely at the surfaces of some streets like Vanderbilt Avenue even today and you'll see expansion joints.

A similar development is now underway a few blocks to the west at the LIRR's West Side Yard (formerly the site of the old New York Central 30th Street Yard) next to Penn Station. The MTA sold the air rights and it's currently being decked over as part of the new "Hudson Yards" development.

I don't like the idea, but it's not unprecedented by any means.

-Philip Marshall

As our cities continue to grow and develope, this will become a lot more common. Some of the MTA shops are located below buildings for the same reason. City planners have to use the space that is available. Air rights don't make money unless they are leased or sold. That's lost or unrealized income to both the property owner and the government.

As for dealing with chronically homeless populations, there are ways to have usable public space, yet make it unappealing as a place for the homeless to camp out.

Here is a link to a great 1920s photo of the Knoxville city yards. http://cmdc.knoxlib.org/cdm/singleitem/ ... 4603/rec/5

Okay I am now feeling a little better about the "decking" issue,I just hope some class would be used around the historic station and the passenger platforms not razed for it. The station was originaly at ground level with store fronts and nearby Gay Street. But later the Gay Street viduct was built over the tracks sometime around 1919 and the 2nd floor of nearby businesses became ground level when the street was raised to match the viaduct.To this day you can see former store front entrances in what is now their basements. Thus the grand station building has been below street level on the front side ever since. On a side note: the Old Smoky Railway museum has a derelict set of passengers cars at the station which really hurts the looks of the area. https://www.flickr.com/photos/chucksuth ... otostream/

Check UNDERGROUND ATLANTA..... this isn't new. On the opposite side, my grandfather watched them level The Hill in downtown Pittsburgh, which made the basements the ground floors.

dave

I grew up with relatives in Atlanta and was always told the underground was an area too dangerous to visit. By what I have heard hearsay and read on the wikipedia link it has never been anything for Atlanta to be proud of. That's another reason I don't want Knoxville to build the deck,and there is no where near the money in Knoxville as in Atlanta. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_Atlanta