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 Post subject: Reading 2100 To Be Reconverted Back To Oil-Burning
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 11:25 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11826
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
https://railfan.com/group-restoring-rea ... -burn-oil/

Quote:
American Steam Railroad Preservation Association announced last week that they would burn oil in Reading 4-8-4 2100, currently being restored to operating condition in Cleveland. The group cited economic and operating challenges as the reasons for the conversion.

Locomotive 2100 was previously converted to oil in Canada, but American Steam is working with FMW Solutions on a new oil-burning system. A number of locomotives have been converted from coal to oil in recent years due to the challenges of acquiring and burning coal. The fuel system, which will also burn recycled vegetable oil will be designed to work inside the locomotive’s Wooten firebox, which was designed specifically to burn Anthracite coal.

“While the fuel will be changing, ASR is committed to properly storing the unused coal components, and having the external firebox and inside cab appearance be as it was originally built, including the firebox butterfly doors,” said Forrest Nace, treasurer and restoration crew volunteer. “Taking into account the expense of not only the coal but its transport, proper storage, loading, and ash abatement, it became evident that it would be difficult to have any remaining funds after operating at non-steam railroads and museums we are in discussions with. Additionally, the logistics of storing, refueling, and burning liquid fuel is in-line with what modern railroads and diesel-operated tourist lines are accustomed to, thereby greatly expanding our opportunities and reducing emissions.”


Last edited by Alexander D. Mitchell IV on Mon Aug 07, 2023 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Reading 2100 To Be Reconvered Back To Oil-Burning
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 1:01 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:30 am
Posts: 768
The purists won't like it, but it sure as hell makes a heck of a lot more sense.


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 Post subject: Re: Reading 2100 To Be Reconvered Back To Oil-Burning
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 1:25 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 11:12 pm
Posts: 224
k5ahudson wrote:
The purists won't like it, but it sure as hell makes a heck of a lot more sense.


It's just the way of things now, and people / rail fans need to get use to the idea that things change. The PRR T1 Trust also changed plans on fuel some time ago, but I noticed that they were fairly quiet about the change to oil until pressed in the Facebook comment section.


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 Post subject: Re: Reading 2100 To Be Reconvered Back To Oil-Burning
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 2:18 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 1716
hullmat991 wrote:
k5ahudson wrote:
The purists won't like it, but it sure as hell makes a heck of a lot more sense.


It's just the way of things now, and people / rail fans need to get use to the idea that things change.


If all people were fine with things changing there is no need for old steam trains to operate at all.

Doesn't seem to be an issue for 611 and 2102 currently? So it's not impossible.

But I also understand how oil-burning engines make sense and of course, railroads back in the day converted engines to burn different fuels as it made sense as well.

I will say too.. last time I rode the open air car at Durango it was nice to not get cinders in my eye! :) haha.


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 Post subject: Re: Reading 2100 To Be Reconvered Back To Oil-Burning
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 4:03 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:03 pm
Posts: 93
Location: Southeast PA
I just hope they didn't spend too much time/effort "undoing" the previous oil burner conversion.

I recall (and this might be a false recall) that the 2100 did not steam properly with the last conversion? Any truth to this? It might have just been someone blowing smoke... no pun intended.


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 Post subject: Re: Reading 2100 To Be Reconvered Back To Oil-Burning
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 5:13 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 11:12 pm
Posts: 224
PRR8063 wrote:
I just hope they didn't spend too much time/effort "undoing" the previous oil burner conversion.

I recall (and this might be a false recall) that the 2100 did not steam properly with the last conversion? Any truth to this? It might have just been someone blowing smoke... no pun intended.


From what I remember from the YouTube video on the groups channel from when they were getting it ready to move to Ohio; they said part of the reason why the conversion didn't go well was that it used a too small single burner setup.
As for what they've done to restore it back to coal? I know they removed the oil bunker insert from the tender, reclaimed the stoker equipment from the museum in Canada where the oil conversion was done, I believe they also partnered in an order for brand new grate castings with another group, and had at least some work done on the stoker motor.


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 Post subject: Re: Reading 2100 To Be Reconvered Back To Oil-Burning
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 5:36 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 1939
Location: New Franklin, OH
Quote:
I will say too.. last time I rode the open air car at Durango it was nice to not get cinders in my eye! :) haha.

Wait until they sand the flues when you're hanging out the window....

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 Post subject: Re: Reading 2100 To Be Reconvered Back To Oil-Burning
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 5:44 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 2612
Crescent-Zephyr wrote:
If all people were fine with things changing there is no need for old steam trains to operate at all.

That's about the size of it. Sometimes I feel like we're in the film The Revenge of the Killer Tomatoes in which tomatoes are banned so they try making pizzas with strawberry sauce, it gets to the point where a steam locomotive burning french fry oil just isn't the same thing anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: Reading 2100 To Be Reconverted Back To Oil-Burning
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 8:48 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 2477
.


Last edited by Kelly Anderson on Sun Aug 18, 2024 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Reading 2100 To Be Reconverted Back To Oil-Burning
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2023 8:15 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 6464
Location: southeastern USA
OK, we're looking at a Wootten firebox, Tuyere grates and thermic syphons. This is a great system for burning Anthracite Culm. So, the idea that the USA standard(ish) SP oil setup is then only"proper" one? Kelly, I hate to disagree, but...... given the adaptation was done in Canada, it's not unusual that the proven Canadian burner under the door design would have been chosen, especially since you can keep the brick arch. I can't recall any Canadian power built with Wootten fireboxes, though..... and burning oil.

FMW is familiar with the many systems that have been used in a lot of different circumstances and I'm very curious about what they will design in terms of retrofits to everything from the firepan through the stack. Filling that big wide box with burning wet particles is going to be an interesting propisition.

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“God, the beautiful racket of it all: the sighing and hissing, the rattle and clack of the cars over the rails. These were the sounds that made America the greatest country on earth." Jonathan Evison


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 Post subject: Re: Reading 2100 To Be Reconverted Back To Oil-Burning
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:21 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 2692
Location: Sackets Harbor, NY
When the late Tom Payne bought the 2100 I called him to congratulate him and when he said during the conversation that he intended to convert her to oil I offered to introduce him to Robert Franzen the then CMO at the GCRR who has just converted a locomotive ( or 2 ?) to oil and I was sure would share what he learned with Payne. His reply was " I know exactly what to do and don't need any advice".

Long story short his Rube Goldberg conversion was a total disaster, couldn't maintain working pressure and produced very uneven heat patterns that did certain injury to parts of the firebox.

As to the wisdom of converting to oil in today's reality there's really no other choice especially if the locomotive's operating locations may change frequently.

The combined costs of the coal, getting it loaded into the tender and taking care of getting rid of the ashes "properly" add up to being VERY expensive, whereas oil is easily available, a breeze to load and no ashes. Makes oil a no brainer and affords the opportunity to use bio-diesel or used deep fryer oil that will make the greenies happy.

To service the 2101 ( AFT 1 ) when she powered the Freedom Train throughout the Northeastern US we used 7 captive service gondolas that rotated between the coal mine and one of our upcoming service ( display) sites, we arranged for a railroad supplied burro crane ( no longer exist) to load the coal into her tender, and raked the ashes level onto the ballast.

In some cases such as the R&N where the engine never leaves the same fixed base staying with coal may make sense but even there oil would be a good deal cheaper per mile.

Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: Reading 2100 To Be Reconverted Back To Oil-Burning
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2023 12:33 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:37 pm
Posts: 1313
Location: Pacific, MO
A PROPER conversion to oil would be a smart move. You have to do what will make life easier if your aren't on your own railroad, like R&N.
I don't know what you would call the previous version of oil burner that she suffered with other than sub Rube Goldberg and IMO dangerous.
So, proper burner below the throat sheet aimed at the flash wall in back of the firebox, proper firebrick walls and floor. Maybe an ATSF style Van Boden type.
The important thing is to get the drafting dialed in. That can make or break you.
I wouldn't be in favor of retaining the butterfly door. I don't know if it would sustain a blast from an oil fire mishap as well as a typical oil burner door. Just don't think it would be a good idea. I've seen a couple of relights on 1522 in early days from rookie firemen that wouldn't be ideal for a butterfly door.
Safety First.


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 Post subject: Re: Reading 2100 To Be Reconverted Back To Oil-Burning
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2023 12:45 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11826
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
co614 wrote:
To service the 2101 ( AFT 1 ) when she powered the Freedom Train throughout the Northeastern US we used 7 captive service gondolas that rotated between the coal mine and one of our upcoming service ( display) sites, we arranged for a railroad supplied burro crane ( no longer exist) to load the coal into her tender, and raked the ashes level onto the ballast.


I seem to recall reports in Railfan Magazine at the time that SLCA was ordering a very specific mine's specific seam of coal for their locomotives--at something like five to ten times the going price for more readily available coal. This, of course, is comparable to auto or boat racers ordering super-premium racing gasoline, and a necessity when you are promising reliable "turnkey" steam locomotive service systemwide to a Class One railroad, unlike some of the disasters in coal supply reported by the crews of London & North Eastern 4472 only ten years earlier. (Fortunately for AFT 1, she didn't get to run in "lignite country"..............)

And being an Easterner used to seeing power plant anthracite and bituminous rolling through my town (as well as the occasional cars of petroleum coke) and having fired an Eastern coal burning steamer or two in my day, I was flabbergasted to see the "black dirt" falling from Western hoppers on the BNSF years later....... I mean, I guess you can get it to burn, or they wouldn't be mining and moving it, but egads at the thought of chucking THAT cr*p in 1361 or 98 or 425 or EBT Mikados or whatever......


Last edited by Alexander D. Mitchell IV on Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Reading 2100 To Be Reconverted Back To Oil-Burning
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2023 4:09 pm 

Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:56 pm
Posts: 439
Location: Ontario, Canada.
Saw the locomotive many times in the St. Thomas, Ontario shops, but never looked at the fuel burner. The idea for buying the loco was to run longer tour/cruise type trips, as I recall, so the notion of burning oil made good sense then.
It is too bad that an inadequate burner system was used. This was discussed at length on this site several years back. Knowing a couple of the people involved in the project, it may not be surprising that it all got bolluxed up! Sadly, there is plenty of information available on the Canadian and American oil burning systems used back in the day, both of which worked very well. Not sure why they thought they should reinvent what had worked so well, and still works.
Luckily, even after the loco left St. Thomas, the coal stoker still laid in the pit where the engine had sat.
It was an interesting project with interesting plans. Too bad it all went sideways. Best wishes to the new owners for many years of trouble free operation.


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 Post subject: Re: Reading 2100 To Be Reconverted Back To Oil-Burning
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2023 11:07 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:30 am
Posts: 768
Great Western wrote:
Saw the locomotive many times in the St. Thomas, Ontario shops, but never looked at the fuel burner. The idea for buying the loco was to run longer tour/cruise type trips, as I recall, so the notion of burning oil made good sense then.
It is too bad that an inadequate burner system was used. This was discussed at length on this site several years back. Knowing a couple of the people involved in the project, it may not be surprising that it all got bolluxed up!


There was nobody involved with the project that had any real experience. Tom Payne thought he did, but it didn't take long at the time to realize he didn't. He did a number of questionable things. Did you know the grates were not removed? They were still in the firebox. The rest of the crew was a family from BC. The father was a former CP carman, but no steam experience at all. The rest of the family were just labourers.


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