I like the touch of "authenticity" in Ted Turner's recent film "Gods & Generals" with the locomotive tender lettered V&T.
Was this locomotive and tender on loan from the Nevada State RR Museum or did some movie genius think the Virginia & Truckee was an actual Confederate railroad?

Since I'm on the subject, how many times did the B&O suffer destruction around Harpers Ferry alone?
Who was that character (portrayed in the movie) who had worked for the B&O and then remarked about tearing it up?

> I like the touch of "authenticity"
> in Ted Turner's recent film "Gods &
> Generals" with the locomotive tender
> lettered V&T.
> Was this locomotive and tender on loan from
> the Nevada State RR Museum or did some movie
> genius think the Virginia & Truckee was
> an actual Confederate railroad?

> Since I'm on the subject, how many times did
> the B&O suffer destruction around
> Harpers Ferry alone?
> Who was that character (portrayed in the
> movie) who had worked for the B&O and
> then remarked about tearing it up?

The vast majority of the public viewing the film probably didn't even notice how the locomotive was lettered and if they did, very few if any, could come up with the V&T equating to the Virginia and Truckee. Even some of the railfans could probably not tell you where the V&T actually operated. Heck, people probably thought that "V&T" stood for Virginia and Tennessee.
Don C.

milw261@comcast.net

> Heck, people probably
> thought that "V&T" stood for
> Virginia and Tennessee.

The movie's producers probably didn't know any better themselves.

lumpy72@msn.com

> The movie's producers probably didn't know
> any better themselves.

You bet. Here are the details: The engine was the B&O Museum's B&O #25 "William Mason" and the scene was filmed in Baltimore next to Carroll Park on the museum's mile of track. Despite protestations from the museum staff, the movie people ordered the engine lettered V&T. Well what the heck, it's Virginia isn't it? (I understand the historical location of this event was actually on the RF&P, but whatever....)

Oh yeah, and the prop station that was built to represent an 1850s-1860s-era Virginia station was actually a replica of an 1880s-design station at Yorktown Heights, NY, north of New York City on the NYC's Putnam Division. Those movie guys are real hounds for accuracy.

I see the critics soundly trounced the movie, so I guess they got what was coming.

herbhar@yahoo.com

I think it is unfortuante that the producers of "Gods and Generals" couldn't have asked the B&O museum people for some help with accurate lettering of the locomotive, but you have to give the prodcuers a break. Just think of the challenge of filming any period movie. Just finding all of the stuff necessary to create a believeable snapshot of life during the Civil War is daunting. The overall movie was probably helped by the knowlege of the civil war reenactors that participated.
With movies in general, you have to make a tradeoff. Remember, sets and costumes are supposed to help the story, not become the story itself. Yes, research is necessary, but usually the filmmaker wants to capture the "look" of the period. Sometimes they apply artistic liscense which covers some of the flubs.
I don't think the comment on the V&T lettered tender is too bad of a nitpick. My other interest revolves around large format photography, especially with Graflex Graphic cameras. On the message board for that community, people nitpick when they see a move that is set before the war, but has post war Pacemaker Graphic cameras! So, it could be worse.

david.wilkins@bardstown.com

Actually, the B&O Museum staff was so frustrated with the project that they asked to have their name removed from the credits. If you actually sit through the entire movie you won't see any mention of the locomotive, its owner, its crew or its filming location.

> You bet. Here are the details: The engine
> was the B&O Museum's B&O #25
> "William Mason" and the scene was
> filmed in Baltimore next to Carroll Park on
> the museum's mile of track. Despite
> protestations from the museum staff, the
> movie people ordered the engine lettered
> V&T. Well what the heck, it's Virginia
> isn't it? (I understand the historical
> location of this event was actually on the
> RF&P, but whatever....)

> Oh yeah, and the prop station that was built
> to represent an 1850s-1860s-era Virginia
> station was actually a replica of an
> 1880s-design station at Yorktown Heights,
> NY, north of New York City on the NYC's
> Putnam Division. Those movie guys are real
> hounds for accuracy.

> I see the critics soundly trounced the
> movie, so I guess they got what was coming.


smatthewh@yahoo.com

Like the Sierra Ry shay that was used by a British film crew doing a documentary on the building of the first transcontinental line!

Reasonable replicas of Jupiter and 119 exist and run and there are some 4-4-0s out there.......

Can you imaging a transcontinental shay journey? Oxcart would be as fast.

Dave

Oh I don't know ? V&T seems to work for me.
Maybe if the museum had a coupla thousand volunteers with rifles and sabers you might have been able to make your point better


http://kickitup.railfan.net/html/ns/ns-christiansb
lamontdc@adelphia.net

I dunno. All of this makes me wonder. It seems that universaly, within the cinema, the news press, well, within the media in general (so to speak) that anything 'railroad' is screwed up. Of course I do know some about things railroad. I just wonder if they screw up everything! I saw the movie and I had to wonder what of it was based in fact, I sure knew the V&T Railroad thing wasn't. I don't know too much about civil war history, and after seeing the film, still don't know what to believe. I also wonder about where to go to learn truths and that if the film producers don't care, then why should I? I'm going to Disneyworld!

pvanmeter@msn.com

> I see the critics soundly trounced the
> movie, so I guess they got what was coming.

How many other actual Civil War artifacts did they decide to change?

And, Herb, where was B&O 25 assigned during the war?

Electric City Trolley Museum Association

> I don't know too much
> about civil war history, and after seeing
> the film, still don't know what to believe.
> I also wonder about where to go to learn
> truths and that if the film producers don't
> care, then why should I? I'm going to
> Disneyworld!

To further confuse you there are a zillion books written on the subject "American Civil War" each from a different viewpoint and each making use of a different set of data. As a point of interest the latest books are finally stressing the importance of the railroads and naval forces and how they were an important part of strategy, directly influencing the outcome of many battles. Your choice as to what to conclude from all this.



lamontdc@adelphia.net

> How many other actual Civil War artifacts
> did they decide to change?

> And, Herb, where was B&O 25 assigned
> during the war?

To answer your question and the one posed earler:

E.P. Alexander's "Civil War Railroads and Models" has an excellent account chronologically from the B&O Annual Reports of the time as to how many times the bridge at Harpers Ferry went down during the war; in fact, all of the railroad damage between Cumberland and Brunswick, MD., during "the recent unpleseantness".

It also includes a roster of the B&O locomotives at the time, and also the names and numbers of the locomotives thet Stonewall Jackson towed to the end of the Shenendoah branch and skidded away to the Sounthern Railroads.

One of the personally facinating artifact recently on display at the B&O Museum was the office carbon of the letter from the GM of the B&O to Gen'l Jackson asking him to please bring his locomotives back! According to Alexander, all but one of the locomotives were recoverec, but after the war.

Steve

SZuidervee@aol.com

Remember that the media is mainly playing to a audience that doesn't know much about history in general. Seems to me that the BBC does a much better job with period pieces than we dop here in the U.S. Pearl Harbor was another example of railroad misinformation.

edwinsinclair@hotmail.com

There was a Railroad named the Virginia and Tennessee, running from Lynchburg VA to Britol Tenn. It was 5' gauge. (Source, Railroads of the Civil War, The Impact of Management on Victory and Defeat, by John E Clark Jr., published by Louisiana State University Press, 2001)

The South tried to use the line in September 1863, durring the reenforcment of Chickamauga, but Northern troops has captured Knoxville, blocking that route.

When dealing with movie companies, accuracy comes second to the story. Gods and Generals is not a documenty, it is a Historicaly based, fictionalized account.

Randy Hees

http://spcrr.org
hees@ix.netcom.com

Paul,

While the railroad portions may not be very accurate, other aspects of the movie are vastly more accurate than most previous movies about The War. I thought they did a very good job of portraying the attitudes of the men on both sides about why they were fighting (it wasn't ALL about slavery). I've read a couple of biographies on Gen. T. J. Jackson, and his portrayal seemed right on the money. The events at Fredericksburg were also accurate as far as I can tell. Showing that both sides had Irish regiments at Fredericksburg and how each wondered how the others could justify fighting for the other side is accurate and something most people have never heard of.

Don't give up on the whole movie just because the railway portion is screwed up!

Regards,
Hugh Odom

> I dunno. All of this makes me wonder. It
> seems that universaly, within the cinema,
> the news press, well, within the media in
> general (so to speak) that anything
> 'railroad' is screwed up. Of course I do
> know some about things railroad. I just
> wonder if they screw up everything! I saw
> the movie and I had to wonder what of it was
> based in fact, I sure knew the V&T
> Railroad thing wasn't. I don't know too much
> about civil war history, and after seeing
> the film, still don't know what to believe.
> I also wonder about where to go to learn
> truths and that if the film producers don't
> care, then why should I? I'm going to
> Disneyworld!


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