This is my first post, so someone please throw me a towel in order that I can remove the moisture dripping from just behind and below my temples.

My salad days ("the time of youth, innocence, and inexperience," according to the American Heritage Dictionary) occurred in the early 1950s. One of my favorite memories is of standing aside my father as a huge, beetle-browed Lehigh Valley 4-8-4 roared eastward through Bethlehem with a long string of freight cars. The ground shook, her smoke darkened the sky, and that throaty whistle filled the air with its voice of melodious authority. Although he was also a fan of the rail, my dad used to chuckle and tell a few choice others (Paul Warner of BLW was a close family friend) that I thought is was a "calamity" steam locomotives were being scrapped. Although I still feel much the same, I now would like to understand the process better. How was it done, where was it done, and by whom? Are there pictures available of the process, before, during, or after? Has anyone ever written a book on this(I remember once seeing a picture of a PRR K-4s and a NYC Hudson pilot-to pilot in a scrapyard.)? I do realize that there are other souls out there who are still sensitive about this process, but I also am coming to understand that scrapping is as much a part of the whole picture of railroading as death is a part of the whole picture of life. Call me morose if you must, but better yet please post some relevant resource/information. Many thanks.

prov356@uplink.net

Welcome, Steve.

For many of us on the list a little younger than you, discovering Ron Ziel's book "Twilight of the Steam Locmotives" was a life-changing event that got us into this entire preservation thing. In any event, that book includes a chapter which follows the scapping of a CB&Q engine at Northwestern Wire and Steel in great and nausating detail, with text (a little maudlin maybe but appropriate) and images. It should give you a good sense of how one scrapper did it.

The book is still fairly readily avialable at libraries and used booksellers.

eledbetter@rypn.org

Check out Ron Ziel's 1960s book "The Last of Steam", which has some excellent photos taken at the Northwestern Steel and Wire mill in Sterling, Illinois of locomotives being cut up, as well as some UP engines at Cheyenne. Ron was about the only one I know who documented scrappings. The book is available in many libraries, and can probably be had through interlibrary loan if your local branch doesn't have it.

> This is my first post, so someone please
> throw me a towel in order that I can remove
> the moisture dripping from just behind and
> below my temples.

> My salad days ("the time of youth,
> innocence, and inexperience," according
> to the American Heritage Dictionary)
> occurred in the early 1950s. One of my
> favorite memories is of standing aside my
> father as a huge, beetle-browed Lehigh
> Valley 4-8-4 roared eastward through
> Bethlehem with a long string of freight
> cars. The ground shook, her smoke darkened
> the sky, and that throaty whistle filled the
> air with its voice of melodious authority.
> Although he was also a fan of the rail, my
> dad used to chuckle and tell a few choice
> others (Paul Warner of BLW was a close
> family friend) that I thought is was a
> "calamity" steam locomotives were
> being scrapped. Although I still feel much
> the same, I now would like to understand the
> process better. How was it done, where was
> it done, and by whom? Are there pictures
> available of the process, before, during, or
> after? Has anyone ever written a book on
> this(I remember once seeing a picture of a
> PRR K-4s and a NYC Hudson pilot-to pilot in
> a scrapyard.)? I do realize that there are
> other souls out there who are still
> sensitive about this process, but I also am
> coming to understand that scrapping is as
> much a part of the whole picture of
> railroading as death is a part of the whole
> picture of life. Call me morose if you must,
> but better yet please post some relevant
> resource/information. Many thanks.


ryarger@rypn.org

Eric's title is correct. The Last of Steam was another book, all of operating engines, by Joe Collias.



ryarger@rypn.org

I hate to wax nostalgic (almost like neuralgia) yet again, but. When steam was dying there were sidings in Cleveland, OH stuffed with the things ... as things were different in the 50's nobody said a thing when a bunch of kids roamed over them. The collectors had been over them for the jewelry just in case you think things have changed but we had the thrill of climbing all over, sitting in "the" seat, climbing in the firebox, all those dumb things. Columbia Iron and Metal handled about 6 million tons of RR scrap a year and those boys really did a torch job. Twenty-five burners would descend on a locomotive and cut up two a day. It was interesting to hear about people that "hated" the RRs for dieselization and i'm sure there were jobs lost but all this was beyond teenagers. For the guys that were left the comments ranged from; It's a whole new clean comfortable world out there, to, I quit, dammit, I didn't hire on to be a streetcar motorman! Of course we also had the youthful pleasure of watching Shaker Rapid roll their 1200's off the trucks, jumping in to scrounge the nickels that rolled out from under the seats before they torched them. I still remember the crunch the bodies made when they hit the ground. You can make an even better case for preservation when you have witnessed the demise of a lot that we have lost.


lamontdc@adelphia.net

There are many books documenting the scrapping of BRITISH steam, if you don't mind a British spin on the subject. If you really want to take the effort to secure these books from used book sellers, I suggest looking up books on the Barry miracle", the Woodham Bros. scrapyard in Wales where over 200 ex-BR steamers languished for over a decade (with an occasional scrapping or partial dismantling) until most were purchased for preservation or spares. If I get at the books I have in storage, I can pull out a couple more. Among the best in this vein was "Graveyard of Steam" by B. Handley, published by Allen & Unwin in 1979.

lner4472@bcpl.net

I have been looking for a photo of a K4 (or any PRR steam) and/or a Hudson either sitting in a scrapyard or in the process of being cut up. Anyone know of such a photo?

glueck@maine.edu

The locomotives where scrapped right at Bethlehm. This was done at what we called the High Drope. A lot more where scrapped at a junk yard on the W&N. I have a photo of LVRR 5212 next to the High Drope and the work of cutting it up just started. After they got the engine stripped they pull it under the High Drope and drope a big ball of steel on it to brake up the steel.

jmack@enter.net

> The locomotives where scrapped right at
> Bethlehm. This was done at what we called
> the High Drope. A lot more where scrapped at
> a junk yard on the W&N. I have a photo
> of LVRR 5212 next to the High Drope and the
> work of cutting it up just started. After
> they got the engine stripped they pull it
> under the High Drope and drope a big ball of
> steel on it to brake up the steel.

Hey, James. I would like to see that. Any way you could scan and post it? (I spent college summers as a gandy dancer and later as a brakeman for the PB&NE, working all around as well as through the Bethlehem plant.)


prov356@uplink.net

Back in the 50's when Lionel published "Model Builder" Mag there was a terrific Photo Essay illustrating the scrapping of PRR steam locomotives.

v-scarpitti@att.net

I recall seeing an issue of the Illinois Central company magazine from around 1960 with an article on scrapping IC steam.

I recall reading from a reliable source, maybe the Ziel/Huxtable book on communist-bloc steam, that the Poles used surplus munitions to demolish steam locomotives. No mention of how big an area you have gather the shrapnel up from, though.

When Northwestern Steel and Wire was disposing of its 0-8-0's around 1980, we discussed with their P.R. person how they would scrap ("reduce" in their terms) the engines that weren't taken up by museums. They speculated that they might simply pick them up and drop them, using bigger cranes than they had when Ron Ziel took his pictures in the early 1960's. Apparently the electric furnaces can take bigger hunks than older furnaces could. Like many other readers, I was powerfully affected by Ziel's "Twilight of Steam," and it was spooky to stand where those pictures of CB&Q 6316 were taken, and to get in the cab of one of the three "Q" 2-10-4 boilers that were still in use providing steam. And even spookier to hear that one of those blew up a few weeks after we were there.

Aarne Frobom
The Steam Railroading Institute
P. O. Box 665
Owosso, MI 48867=0665

Aarne: Did you get any photos of those CB&Q 2-10-4s (0-10-0s by then?)used for stationary steam? If I recall, they were in a building. Were there two or three of them? If photos were possible, I think we'd all like to see them. Also, did anyone capture a photo of the CB&Q Mikado they tried to turn into an 0-8-0 for plant use?

> When Northwestern Steel and Wire was
> disposing of its 0-8-0's around 1980, we
> discussed with their P.R. person how they
> would scrap ("reduce" in their
> terms) the engines that weren't taken up by
> museums. They speculated that they might
> simply pick them up and drop them, using
> bigger cranes than they had when Ron Ziel
> took his pictures in the early 1960's.
> Apparently the electric furnaces can take
> bigger hunks than older furnaces could. Like
> many other readers, I was powerfully
> affected by Ziel's "Twilight of
> Steam," and it was spooky to stand
> where those pictures of CB&Q 6316 were
> taken, and to get in the cab of one of the
> three "Q" 2-10-4 boilers that were
> still in use providing steam. And even
> spookier to hear that one of those blew up a
> few weeks after we were there.

> Aarne Frobom
> The Steam Railroading Institute
> P. O. Box 665
> Owosso, MI 48867=0665


ryarger@rypn.org

Nelson blount went out there to see what he could get for his collection in Vermont and was discouraged to see the 2-10-4's were no longer intact, but had drivers cut away and fragments of the running gear dangling. Since these were the last three of the big engines, none were saved. He did grab the 1218 for Steamtown, but you all know about it's migration south again. The other two A's went on to the torch, as did a Y6b that had survived into the 70's.


glueck@maine.edu

He did grab the
> 1218 for Steamtown, but you all know about
> it's migration south again. The other two
> A's went on to the torch, as did a Y6b that
> had survived into the 70's.

Whoa, baby! Not quite........ the A came from Union Carbide in West Virgina, not NWS&W.


hpincus@mindspring.com

> He did grab the

> Whoa, baby! Not quite........ the A came
> from Union Carbide in West Virgina, not
> NWS&W.

Baby, I didn't mean to imply that the 1218 came from NWS&W. But Nelson Blount did save the A from scrapping.

glueck@maine.edu