In furthering my research on the Centerville & Southwestern, a few names surfaced from the time when the 2" scale 4-8-4 "Pocono" No.1501 was built. When Henry Becker & Son went in search for someone to build the engine in 1937, they contacted the American Locomotive Company. They met with Joseph B. Ennis, Alco's Vice-President, who advised them that they couldn't build such a small locomotive. He advised them to contact Hobart B. Ayers, who had recently retired as President from the H.K.Porter Locomotive Company. Mr Ennis had suggested building a 4-8-4 because of the 3% grades on their line. Mr Ayers did the design work and farmed out the machine work in Bridgeport, CT. The engine was completed in 1940.

There was an "ALCO Day" in June 1940 with about 30 people from Alco present. Lackawanna Engineer, John Draney was also present, Draney was famous for his fast 400 mile run from Hoboken to Buffalo in 1901 with a special train to carry doctors when President McKinley was shot. Mr. Draney was given the opportunity to run the 1501. He ran it so fast they had to pull the air on him.

Alco did have a part in building the 1501, they built the boiler. It was the second all-welded boiler built in this country. The first was for a Delaware & Hudson locomotive. The 1501 was reboilered in 1966.

Does anyone have any further information on these gentleman mentioned?



kmuldowney@att.net

Delaware & Hudson 2-8-0 No. 1219 received the world's first fusion-welded boiler in 1938. The boiler was built by Alco and installed at the D&H's Colonie Shops. The Boiler was tested outside the shops for six weeks, then after the engine was placed in service the ICC inspected the boiler every three months for several years.


kmuldowney@att.net

> Delaware & Hudson 2-8-0 No. 1219
> received the world's first fusion-welded
> boiler in 1938. The boiler was built by Alco
> and installed at the D&H's Colonie
> Shops. The Boiler was tested outside the
> shops for six weeks, then after the engine
> was placed in service the ICC inspected the
> boiler every three months for several years.

Speaking of welded boilers, has anyone ever published a list of locomotives BUILT with welded boilers? I know that the last five Chesapeake & Ohio 2-8-4 Kanawha's (2785-2789) had welded boilers, of which 2789 survives at our museum. I also know that some locomotives were RE-BUILT with welded boilers (Santa Fe had some for instance) but I am asking only about those that were so built, such as D&H 1219 and the five Kanawha's.

Thanks for anyone who can provide a list, or direct me to such a list.

Les Beckman (Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum/North Judson, Indiana)

midlandblb@cs.com

> Speaking of welded boilers, has anyone ever
> published a list of locomotives BUILT with
> welded boilers? I know that the last five
> Chesapeake & Ohio 2-8-4 Kanawha's
> (2785-2789) had welded boilers, of which
> 2789 survives at our museum. I also know
> that some locomotives were RE-BUILT with
> welded boilers (Santa Fe had some for
> instance) but I am asking only about those
> that were so built, such as D&H 1219 and
> the five Kanawha's.

> Thanks for anyone who can provide a list, or
> direct me to such a list.

> Les Beckman (Hoosier Valley Railroad
> Museum/North Judson, Indiana)

2 CPR 1200s (1216 and 1231, as I recall), and some of the D&H Challengers were built new with welded boilers.


hpincus@mindspring.com

As per the 1949 Master Boiler Makers Proceeding The AT&SF had new all welded replacement courses for 12 4-8-4 all were not installed the 3768 at Wichita is the only one left.also had two for 3460 class.C&NW had six boilers on 4-8-4 ,CMSP&P had ten on 4-8-4 . CP had 10 on 2-8-2 also C&O had 5 ,NYC had 1 ALL total 49 boiler and shell course were in service by 1949 A lot of these were replacements for all the cracked riveted courses on the alloy boilers built in the late 1930,s Alco built all the complete boilers. A. O. Smith made the replacement barrels for the AT&SF The C&O 2-8-4 is 2789 is the only complete all weld boiler left from the orginal builders that I know of.

daug@inreach.com

Well, there is Jupiter and 119. They've got a few years on them now.

dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

> Well, there is Jupiter and 119. They've got
> a few years on them now.

> dave

And of course, the Knox and Kane and Susquehanna SY's; and the Boone and Scenic Valley JS. (Built new with welded boilers, but not continuous courses, they used welded plugs instead of rivets to joint the courses).

Steve


SZuidervee@aol.com

> 2 CPR 1200s (1216 and 1231, as I recall),
> and some of the D&H Challengers were
> built new with welded boilers.
Yes your # are corect but don't forget the last 10 5200s built by the cpr had all welder boilers. They were build at angus shops in house. I was told due to the record of the boilers on the g5s all new boilers were to be welded. I am not sure of the date but it was late 1949. My cpr diagra book only goes up to 1947. regards bb

> As per the 1949 Master Boiler Makers
> Proceeding The AT&SF had new all welded
> replacement courses for 12 4-8-4 all were
> not installed the 3768 at Wichita is the
> only one left.also had two for 3460
> class.C&NW had six boilers on 4-8-4
> ,CMSP&P had ten on 4-8-4 . CP had 10 on
> 2-8-2 also C&O had 5 ,NYC had 1 ALL
> total 49 boiler and shell course were in
> service by 1949 A lot of these were Don't forget all of the nyc 4-8-4 had new all welded shells by 1948 due to cracks. bb
> replacements for all the cracked riveted
> courses on the alloy boilers built in the
> late 1930,s Alco built all the complete
> boilers. A. O. Smith made the replacement
> barrels for the AT&SF The C&O 2-8-4
> is 2789 is the only complete all weld boiler
> left from the orginal builders that I know
> of.

Is there not an all welded boiler on an excursion engine in Texas????

jasonsobczynski@yahoo.com

I forgot about the boiler on the "Torch Lake" at the Henry Ford Museum operating in their Greenfield Villiage, and I was told there is a new boiler on one of the Cass locos.

jasonsobczynski@yahoo.com

> And of course, the Knox and Kane and
> Susquehanna SY's; and the Boone and Scenic
> Valley JS. (Built new with welded boilers,
> but not continuous courses, they used welded
> plugs instead of rivets to joint the
> courses).

Dear Steve: You are mistaken, the courses are welded both longitudinally and circumferencially (submerged arc process). What you are thinking of are the dome liners, brace feet, mud ring and the like. J. David


jdconrad@snet.net

> Dear Steve: You are mistaken, the courses
> are welded both longitudinally and
> circumferencially (submerged arc process).
> What you are thinking of are the dome
> liners, brace feet, mud ring and the like.
> J. David

Glad to hear that ...I have seen some terrible examples of metal swelling around "plug" welds as it corrodes ...it just doesn't clamp the pieces together like a good old rivet head.


lamontdc@adelphia.net

> Is there not an all welded boiler on an
> excursion engine in Texas????

Texas State RR has replaced (I believe) two of their boilers within the past decade. Some small engines - check out the Georgia Agrirama - have had some replacements as well. I don't think Monroe riveted the Crown boilers either, may be wrong, but why would they?

I lost track of goings on at Texas State when Blair LaVell retired - would like to know what is going on.

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

> Dear Steve: You are mistaken, the courses
> are welded both longitudinally and
> circumferencially (submerged arc process).
> What you are thinking of are the dome
> liners, brace feet, mud ring and the like.
> J. David

Thanks, David, I should have known (remembered)better, having seen naked SY boilers with my own eyes being rebuilt in China!

Steve


SZuidervee@aol.com